Hetzner cloud servers are now available in Ashburn USA • Hacker News Board

Re: Hetzner cloud servers are now available in Ashburn USA

#11

Post by vadfa » Wed, Nov 03, 2021, 11:39 AM UTC

plusmid wrote: post #7

vadfa wrote: post #5

Do these servers also operate under the strict restrictions on speech that Germany has?

Elaborate?

Under European law it is reasonably impossible for an individual to run a forum or blog which is open to comments:

> The EU just passed TERREG yesterday without a vote that requires anyone running a website with user generated content (a blog with comments, a forum etc.) and if they have significant EU user base to establish legal presence in the EU and have an officer responsible for deleting content with 1 hr SLA. That's out of reach for most of people. You cannot even block your site for EU traffic, because EU users can use VPN.

[…]

> On 12 September 2018, the European Commission presented a proposal for a regulation on preventing the dissemination of terrorist content online, which included:

>The one-hour rule: a legally binding one-hour deadline for content to be removed following a removal order from national competent authorities;

Not to mention restrictions on "hate speech", NetzDG, impressums...

If they are operating this datacenter under their German company, wouldn't all clients have to comply with this?

Re: Hetzner cloud servers are now available in Ashburn USA

#12

Post by Tepix » Wed, Nov 03, 2021, 11:45 AM UTC

vadfa wrote: post #11

plusmid wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Elaborate?

Under European law it is reasonably impossible for an individual to run a forum or blog which is open to comments: > The EU just passed TERREG yesterday without a vote that requires anyone running a website with user generated content (a blog with comments, a forum etc.) and if they have significant EU user base to establish legal presence in the EU and have an officer responsible for deleting content with 1 hr SLA.…

Let's see:

"Geldstrafen für Anbieter, die aus technischen oder betrieblichen Gründen einer Löschanordnung nicht innerhalb einer Stunde nachkommen können (z.B. private Webseitenbetreiber zur Nachtzeit), sind ausgeschlossen."

In english: "Fines for providers who cannot comply with a deletion order within one hour for technical or operational reasons (e.g. private website operators at night time) are excluded."

So... you're wrong.

PS I agree that TERREG is bad.

Re: Hetzner cloud servers are now available in Ashburn USA

#13

Post by Tenoke » Wed, Nov 03, 2021, 11:45 AM UTC

vadfa wrote: post #11

plusmid wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Elaborate?

Under European law it is reasonably impossible for an individual to run a forum or blog which is open to comments: > The EU just passed TERREG yesterday without a vote that requires anyone running a website with user generated content (a blog with comments, a forum etc.) and if they have significant EU user base to establish legal presence in the EU and have an officer responsible for deleting content with 1 hr SLA.…

As your comment states you already technically have to comply with this if you have a significant EU user base, regardless of your provider.

Non-EU sites like twitter for example comply - I get the netzdg options when I click report from Germany, they have legal presence etc. despite not being hosted here.

Re: Hetzner cloud servers are now available in Ashburn USA

#14

Post by yosamino » Wed, Nov 03, 2021, 11:46 AM UTC

plusmid wrote: post #7

vadfa wrote: post #5

Do these servers also operate under the strict restrictions on speech that Germany has?

Elaborate?

Apart from the obvious restrictions on holocaust denial and related socially incendiary language, there have been laws passed criminalizing hate speech.

Hate speech is defined pretty broadly so something as harmless as - free translation - "man, what a schlong!" directed against a state-level politician caused a small media storm and included the police raiding the house (well... they didnt' even manage to raid the correct house) of the person who typed out that tweet. (#pimmelgate if you want to look it up)

That's not to say that there aren't more vile comments and death-threats that maybe deserve to be looked at a little closer to protect the victims, that are also the focus of these legal tools. But in general it seems something prone to abuse of power, and hosting providers can, to varying degrees, be coerced into aiding the state agents in enforcing these laws.

Re: Hetzner cloud servers are now available in Ashburn USA

#15

Post by jabiko » Wed, Nov 03, 2021, 11:47 AM UTC

vadfa wrote: post #11

plusmid wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Elaborate?

Under European law it is reasonably impossible for an individual to run a forum or blog which is open to comments: > The EU just passed TERREG yesterday without a vote that requires anyone running a website with user generated content (a blog with comments, a forum etc.) and if they have significant EU user base to establish legal presence in the EU and have an officer responsible for deleting content with 1 hr SLA.…

I don't think the location of the company matters. As far as the EU is concerned if you are serving an audience in the EU you have to comply even if you are hosting on AWS or any other hosting provider regardless of where you are in the world.

IANAL, but I don't think this law is a relevant factor when picking your hosting provider.

Re: Hetzner cloud servers are now available in Ashburn USA

#16

Post by wardb » Wed, Nov 03, 2021, 11:47 AM UTC

I'm with OVH because of their NA presence (Canada). Prefer dedicated servers because of the bang for the buck. Hopefully that's in Hetzner's roadmap too

Re: Hetzner cloud servers are now available in Ashburn USA

#17

Post by markplindsay » Wed, Nov 03, 2021, 11:48 AM UTC

jonatron wrote: post #2

Instances include 20TB of traffic, which is better than paying thousands to AWS for it.

It really is so much cheaper. After dropping S3/RDS/ECS for OVH bare metal running Proxmox, my costs decreased significantly. I still use Route 53 and back up to S3, though.

Re: Hetzner cloud servers are now available in Ashburn USA

#18

Post by diegorbaquero » Wed, Nov 03, 2021, 11:50 AM UTC

vadfa wrote: post #11

plusmid wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Elaborate?

Under European law it is reasonably impossible for an individual to run a forum or blog which is open to comments: > The EU just passed TERREG yesterday without a vote that requires anyone running a website with user generated content (a blog with comments, a forum etc.) and if they have significant EU user base to establish legal presence in the EU and have an officer responsible for deleting content with 1 hr SLA.…

How enforceable is this? If I’m a Latin American hosting in the US what happens?

Re: Hetzner cloud servers are now available in Ashburn USA

#19

Post by PragmaticPulp » Wed, Nov 03, 2021, 11:54 AM UTC

jabiko wrote: post #15

vadfa wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Under European law it is reasonably impossible for an individual to run a forum or blog which is open to comments: > The EU just passed TERREG yesterday without a vote that requires anyone running a website with user generated content (a blog with comments, a forum etc.) and if they have significant EU user base to establish legal presence in the EU and have an officer responsible for deleting content with 1 hr SLA.…

I don't think the location of the company matters. As far as the EU is concerned if you are serving an audience in the EU you have to comply even if you are hosting on AWS or any other hosting provider regardless of where you are in the world. IANAL, but I don't think this law is a relevant factor when picking your hosting provider.

Does the law specifically carve out exceptions for hosting companies? If there isn’t an explicit exception, then the cloud hosting company could also be subjected to the same requirements to remove censored content from their platform within 1 hour of receiving the notice.

A hosting platform hosting user-provided code and content isn’t that much different than a forum platform hosting user-provided comments in the eyes of the law.

Re: Hetzner cloud servers are now available in Ashburn USA

#20

Post by kjaftaedi » Wed, Nov 03, 2021, 11:55 AM UTC

Hetzner deleted all of my vms after getting erroneously flagged by their abuse department due to my account details. (nothing to do with my machines)

They sent me an email saying my account was paused and to contact them to resolve it, which I did within half an hour.

My account was reinstated minus all of my environment.. just a blank account. They deleted everything and told me they had no way to restore it.

Beware hosting anything with them unless you keep backups with another provider.