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People who have unusual, or non-existent, inner voices

theguardian.com

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Re: People who have unusual, or non-existent, inner voices

#201

Post by johnchristopher »

throwaway-jim wrote: post #189
johnchristopher wrote: post #186

Wait a minute... I thought I had internal monologue because I can hear myself speaking thoughts and myself talking to myself (it's like talking out loud but in your head) but reading some of the comments here it seems like people have multiple inner voices and that's what they mean by internal monologue ? I don't have inner voices, there's only me up there (and I do a lot of self pitying and most of the monologue is…

Have you tried changing your inner voice to some one else's voice? I'm usually have 1 primary voice but I can synthesize anyone's voice. For example, if I'm reading something that I know was written by a woman my brain automatically makes up a female voice for it.

Yes, when role playing conversations or thinking about someone talking I have their tone and speech patterns but I am the one writing the dialogue (borrowing on their way of phrasing sentences). On that note, I can't picture their own inner monologue but I have never tried that.

When reading fiction I have different tones for people but it's barely noticeable. I read without sub vocalizing much (reading too fast for that but I can pause it to enjoy the scene or the writing or the experience of reading, it depends).

I too make up voices for female and male authors of tweets, blog posts, articles, comments, etc. but it's automatic and they aren't discernable unless I have heard the person then it'll always be their voice.

And there's a huuuuuge bias because the default is a male voice with all of my stereotypes attached to it.

Re: People who have unusual, or non-existent, inner voices

#202

Post by johnchristopher »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #193
johnchristopher wrote: post #186

Wait a minute... I thought I had internal monologue because I can hear myself speaking thoughts and myself talking to myself (it's like talking out loud but in your head) but reading some of the comments here it seems like people have multiple inner voices and that's what they mean by internal monologue ? I don't have inner voices, there's only me up there (and I do a lot of self pitying and most of the monologue is…

I don't, but I can imagine another voice if needs be; I can imagine some people crafted their internal monologue to be like that. I mean at some point my inner monologue was entirely in English (not my native language), and I spent a lot of time thinking in the style of writing a post on the forum I was active on at the time. I think it's a helpful tool to think outside of your own self (that's the best phrasing I ca…

I do feel being different when thinking and writing in English but I don't know if it changes my personal traits or inclinations. I read once about how it has an impact though: being more or less assertive, funny or polite. But I wonder if theses changes aren't just an illusion due to the fact that it does change (limit more often than increase) our range of expressions (as in expressing emotions, conveying meaning through the way you craft a message, think McLuhan's medium is the message).

When I am trying to piece how someone else think/would react/feel, when I am trying to be empathic I do not rely on roleplaying that person and I do not write sentences I would listen to with their own tone. It's an analytical process. (But I am pedantic with the definition of empathy and compassion).

> I spent a lot of time thinking in the style of writing a post on the forum I was active on at the time

My inner monologue (which can be a dialogue in the sense that when I ponder things I tell myself "what if I do that ?" for instance) is a part what defines me as an individual. It's me but not completely me (it misses the unconscious, as in what I don't have in mind at the moment and what I don't know about myself.. I don't have full knowledge of who I am or why I do things I do).

Re: People who have unusual, or non-existent, inner voices

#203

Post by _djo_ »

0xdeadb00f wrote: post #171

My inner monologue is almost crippling. I can't fall asleep at night, I think of all the stupid shit I've done and said in the past, and I call myself names because of it. It's gotten to the point where sometimes when I'm alone I'll vocalise these names I call msyelf out loud. It sort of helps to relieve the stress of reliving cringey memories... But I'm not sure anymore.

I'm sorry, that sounds extremely unpleasant. The only advice I can offer is to look into professional therapy, as that sort of a negative self-talk pattern is extremely difficult to break out of on your own.

Re: People who have unusual, or non-existent, inner voices

#204

Post by agent327 »

anfelor wrote: post #158

My inner voice helps me tremendously while working on a proof or an algorithm: I say the individual steps in my head and then I remember them better. I can even do this with writing blog posts, but then when I get to the keyboard I still know the gist but not the precise phrasing, which is a shame since the original phrasing sounded so good in my head. Does anyone have a solution for that?

Is that an inner voice though? I get the impression that the inner voice described in the article is involuntary, whereas the thing you describe is simply you, thinking conciously.

Having read the article I find I have no idea whether I have an inner voice or not. I can't imagine an inner voice that I cannot shut down if I want to. And it certainly isn't some other persona; it's just me, 'speaking' without actually making the sounds.

Re: People who have unusual, or non-existent, inner voices

#205

Post by johnchristopher »

throw0101a wrote: post #196
johnchristopher wrote: post #186

Wait a minute... I thought I had internal monologue because I can hear myself speaking thoughts and myself talking to myself (it's like talking out loud but in your head) but reading some of the comments here it seems like people have multiple inner voices and that's what they mean by internal monologue ? I don't have inner voices, there's only me up there (and I do a lot of self pitying and most of the monologue is…

> I don't have inner voices, there's only me up there I don't have "me" up there most of the time. Usually only when (a) I'm reading to myself or (b) if I'm practicing/going over a conversation or 'debate' on a concept. Otherwise my mind is usually quiet.

I do envy you I think. I am always there except when daydreaming or in the zone (reading, mind wandering, etc.).

Then again what would I think what is "me" if I didn't have that constant 'observation of the world (outer and inner)' ?

Maybe I don't have inner dialogue but anxiety is eating my mind (anxiety as in: being aware of the world all the time, observing it all the time) and it gives an illusion of monologue/being ?

Re: People who have unusual, or non-existent, inner voices

#206

Post by 0xdeadb00f »

_djo_ wrote: post #203
0xdeadb00f wrote: post #171

My inner monologue is almost crippling. I can't fall asleep at night, I think of all the stupid shit I've done and said in the past, and I call myself names because of it. It's gotten to the point where sometimes when I'm alone I'll vocalise these names I call msyelf out loud. It sort of helps to relieve the stress of reliving cringey memories... But I'm not sure anymore.

I'm sorry, that sounds extremely unpleasant. The only advice I can offer is to look into professional therapy, as that sort of a negative self-talk pattern is extremely difficult to break out of on your own.

I've been diagnosed with MDD in the past. Though I wasn't formally diagnosed with anxiety, I did have symptoms of it. I think that's what's come to the forefront now, and what's probably the cause of this negative self-talk.

Thanks for the advice :)

Re: People who have unusual, or non-existent, inner voices

#207

Post by gala8y »

thom wrote: post #172

Felt a bit crestfallen reading this because I’m not convinced I have one of these. I subvocalise constantly, and I can picture things well, but I’m the originator of those thoughts. Of course sometimes I’ll be saying “that was dumb” or “you’re being an arsehole” but it’s still me saying it. I take it from the article that for some people these thoughts occur unbidden, and I find myself a little envious that my subcon…

> but it’s still me saying it.

It is of course always you, but putting concepts of me/ego/identity aside, you can treat your "you’re being an arsehole" as a certain kind of energy in your consciousness, which tends to make similar remarks and shows up when you're actually acting like an arsehole. The idea here is even bigger - you can talk _both_ to this 'arshole' energy/self (you behaving in a certain way) _and_ to this voice saying "you’re being an arsehole.", critising gently appearance of this 'arsehole' you.

> for some people these thoughts occur unbidden

It is a common experience. Even your examples (“that was dumb” or “you’re being an arsehole”) are not consciously, deliberately invited thoughts and indeed, in in many cases voices can become really strong and talk to you all the time.

When you look at your mind as comprised of different selves/states, which are a bit like independent people inside you operating within you, very interesting things happen.

When we focus on the fact that these parts are _talking_, we can refer to them as voices and _converse with them_, but generally these are your energy patterns, eg. your Lazy energy/part or Workoholic energy/part (or your Arsehole energy/part) shows up. Sometimes (very often) some of them are too strong and show up and stay uninvited.

Re: People who have unusual, or non-existent, inner voices

#208

Post by agent327 »

JaimeThompson wrote: post #37
boc wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So wait, if you close your eyes and picture Mount Everest, you can't see Mount Everest in your head? For me it's easy to "fly" around my neighborhood just by closing my eyes and remembering what the streets and trees and houses look like as I take a lap. I can see off into the distance, I can see the sidewalk cracks, I can see people... all of them are obviously fuzzed versions of reality but nonetheless they're rela…

It is called aphantasia and I have it too. I am totally unable to picture anything in my head despite trying for years.

How about abstract concepts? If I ask you to imagine something mathematical, like a circle in a square, do you 'see' anything?

Re: People who have unusual, or non-existent, inner voices

#209

Post by corobo »

My internal monologue is more like a board meeting

"I" can veto everything but there are other threads relating to specific things. Anxiety has always had a prominent seat at the table but recently we brought in consultants to see if we can dislodge all of the old guard. We got rid of depression's seat last year

They don't have a physical form or anything like that. Purely held within imagination as a way to quickly grab all angles on a thought. Like a mind palace except it also has a meeting room

In the real world I'm just sitting there wearing my usual poker face. Someone asks what I'm thinking, "Not much"

Oh it turned out I have ADHD. The consultants are the UK equivalent to Ritalin. Depression was finally ousted with citalopram and by treating the ADHD

Re: People who have unusual, or non-existent, inner voices

#210

Post by sdiupIGPWEfh »

TheAceOfHearts wrote: post #92
dmitrygr wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is there a simple test Close your eyes and imagine a triangle. Now, quickly, what color was it? If you have an answer, you do not have aphantasia. If you have no answer, you likely have aphantasia - your mind instantiated a concept of a triangle, but until the question of color came up, it was irrelevant and was not considered

Not a good example, IMO. A triangle is defined as 3 points with 3 lines connecting each consecutive point. A better example would be: think of Tony the Tiger, now what colors are his skin, stripes, and bandana? But that's also not perfect because people are along a spectrum in the amount of detail they're able to see.

Weird. If asked to visualize a triangle, I see the "glowing lines in a black space." If I try to visualize a red/green/blue triangle, I can only briefly maintain the image before it fades away into the default white outline in the void.

However, when asked to think of Tony the Tiger and his stripes, not only do I perceive orange fur and red bandana, but I'm struck by just how freaking blue his nose is and it is uncomfortably persistent.

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