21–30 of 108 posts
I like this list. I don’t agree with every choice but so what: they are all thoughtful choices (except why do you need `recur`?) that reflect an opinionated position which I appreciate.
I believe it was due to limitations of the JVM at the time. Edit: https://www.windley.com/archives/2008/11/tail_optimized_mutu...
> There is more to collections than lists. You can have instances of empty collections, some of which have literal support ([], {}, and ()). Thus there can be no sentinel empty collection value. Probably my favorite feature over common lisp. Combined with comma (,) being treated as whitespace (ie, use comma if you want to but you don't have to), makes typing out data structures in clojure a much more enjoyable proces…
This isn’t really a thing, though: Common Lisp has built-in literal syntax for n-dimensional arrays and structs and libraries like fset provide literal syntax for Clojure-style immutable data structures.
In many ways I feel like Clojure is a better Lisp than Lisp itself. Syntactic niceties like support for vectors/maps/sets are, once you've gotten used to them, hard to do without. And although it's orthogonal to the syntax, I also appreciate its focus on immutability. I just with there was a Lisp like it that didn't run on the JVM.
> I just with there was a Lisp like it that didn't run on the JVM. There are a few, with varying degrees of distance from the JVM and varying degrees of similarity to Clojure. - There's ClojureScript, which is Clojure transpiled to JavaScript. - See also Lumo ( ) and Planck ( ) - There's Babashka ( https://github.com/babashka/babashka ), which is a natively-compiled Clojure interpreter, implemented with the Small Clo…
> There is more to collections than lists. You can have instances of empty collections, some of which have literal support ([], {}, and ()). Thus there can be no sentinel empty collection value. Probably my favorite feature over common lisp. Combined with comma (,) being treated as whitespace (ie, use comma if you want to but you don't have to), makes typing out data structures in clojure a much more enjoyable proces…
This isn’t really a thing, though: Common Lisp has built-in literal syntax for n-dimensional arrays and structs and libraries like fset provide literal syntax for Clojure-style immutable data structures.
The common lisp community has rejected reader macros for interop reasons the last time I checked (in the case of cl21)
Even the docs for fset doesn't show the use of data literals. it does things like (set) and (isetq s2 (set 'c 1 "foo" 'a 'c))
This pretty much proves my point. it's not fun typing (set 'c 1 "foo" 'a 'c) instead of #{'c 1 "foo" 'a 'c}. It's also not possible to put those on the wire (easily) for communication between common lisp processes. Breaking the whole point of homoiconicity.
I'm in the process of learning ClojureScript - real fun so far. I have of course also looked at other LISPs and have noticed that in CJS the use of square brackets[] for vectors, let and `function params`
(defn myfunc []
(let [some-var (:some-key some-state)])
(.log js/console some-var)
)
Am I wrong or just stupid or is there another reason most other LISP doesn't follow this "convention"?
Again I'm super-newbie, just something that jumped out at me.
There is just something nice about the Go-Lang eco-system and compiling to static binary, not too many XML/JVM magic.
In many ways I feel like Clojure is a better Lisp than Lisp itself. Syntactic niceties like support for vectors/maps/sets are, once you've gotten used to them, hard to do without. And although it's orthogonal to the syntax, I also appreciate its focus on immutability. I just with there was a Lisp like it that didn't run on the JVM.
> I just with there was a Lisp like it that didn't run on the JVM. There are a few, with varying degrees of distance from the JVM and varying degrees of similarity to Clojure. - There's ClojureScript, which is Clojure transpiled to JavaScript. - See also Lumo ( ) and Planck ( ) - There's Babashka ( https://github.com/babashka/babashka ), which is a natively-compiled Clojure interpreter, implemented with the Small Clo…
Maybe a more seasoned LISP-`aterian` can answer me ? I'm in the process of learning ClojureScript - real fun so far. I have of course also looked at other LISPs and have noticed that in CJS the use of square brackets[] for vectors, let and `function params` (defn myfunc [] (let [some-var (:some-key some-state)]) (.log js/console some-var) ) I almost never see square brackets in other LISPs (yes I'm truly a beginner a…
For example, in traditional Scheme one would write:
; this is in R5RS Scheme
(define (length elems)
(cond ((null? elems) 0)
(else (+ 1 (length (cdr elems))))))
; this is in Racket
(define (length elems)
(cond [(empty? elems) 0]
[else (+ 1 (length (rest elems)))]))
I don't know the origins of when brackets started appearing in Lisps. I don't remember seeing brackets in the LISP 1.5 Programmers Manual when using S-expressions (though brackets are a core part of M-expression syntax, which LISP 1.5 still supported), and I haven't encountered brackets in Common Lisp.
Is clojure the newest popular-language-you-can-get-a-job-in? It's initial release was 2007. Rust (2010) (edit Kotlin (2011) perhaps), but point being there aren't many newer: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_programming_langua... That metric is subjective and arbitrary, but it's on my mind because my company is hiring for clojure developers (see my immediate comment history & apologies for the advertisement)…
Go (2009), TypeScript (2012), Julia (2012) and Swift (2014) are all contenders
PHP is like the backup-plan(welder,lawyer etc) your parents wanted you to have before going out on the road with your band and making it big :D
/mostly-sarcasm - but a little true ?
Maybe a more seasoned LISP-`aterian` can answer me ? I'm in the process of learning ClojureScript - real fun so far. I have of course also looked at other LISPs and have noticed that in CJS the use of square brackets[] for vectors, let and `function params` (defn myfunc [] (let [some-var (:some-key some-state)]) (.log js/console some-var) ) I almost never see square brackets in other LISPs (yes I'm truly a beginner a…
I don't suggest that this is what primarily drove the lack of adoption of other kind of braces but I, as a follower of the church of Lisp, had an immense dislike of the lack of purity.
In the end vector and map "syntax" is just the reader being more ergonomic in Clojure than in Common Lisp. (See https://clojure.org/reference/reader for details)
After I also got over my aversion of the Java ecosystem and just accepted that the jvm can be great without thinking Java is great, I'm all in on Clojure for the last few years. I think the language is fantastic and due to the huge amount of interop I can use my favorite language in settings that would be difficult otherwise. I've used Clojure on the web as ClojureScript, as backend as Clojure, on a ESP32 and reMarkable as ClojureScript and since relatively recent I can even accomplish scripting tasks with very good start-up times using babashka.
I'm a super happy camper and I've found my language for life. A pragmatic Lisp. (duck because stones are incoming.)