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Stop spending so much time being trolled by billionaire corps

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Re: Stop spending so much time being trolled by billionaire corps

#71

Post by refurb »

robflynn wrote: post #56
refurb wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Terrible! I want any podcast host to carefully vet any information on their show so I only hear ApproveIdeas(tm) as it’s clear I might get DangerousIdeas(tm) should I hear information not officially approved.

It feels like you're twisting words here. Wanting things to be vetted is not the same thing as saying "everyone has to agree with me." There's a difference between taking a differing opinion and just spouting outright bullshit and lies. Maybe there was some implied sarcasm I missed.

How could that possibly work for a podcast? Interview each guest and basically script out the conversation? Or maybe do the interview then heavily edited it?

And who decides what’s appropriately “vetted”? I assume the Covid “lab leak” theory would have been verboten last year but apparently ok now?

I haven’t listened to Rogan in a long time but he basically invites people on and asks questions. He doesn’t give the “Rogan Stamp of Approval” to everything said.

The criticisms seem to be a basic form of “stop talking about things I don’t like”.

Re: Stop spending so much time being trolled by billionaire corps

#73

Post by PragmaticPulp »

refurb wrote: post #51
toyg wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Joe Rogan sits squarely at the intersection of "intelligent and curious people who don't vet their sources particularly well" and "batshit-insane folks looking for confirmation of their abhorrent views".

Terrible! I want any podcast host to carefully vet any information on their show so I only hear ApproveIdeas(tm) as it’s clear I might get DangerousIdeas(tm) should I hear information not officially approved.

Part of Rogan's schtick is conspiracy theories. There's a lot of "just asking questions" style conversations where he tries to build up this idea that the "officially approved" narrative has a lot of holes, which he often uses to insert an alternate opinion that isn't subject to the same scrutiny.

His anti-vaccine content is a perfect example: He invites actual experts on his show, but then interrupts them and brings up an anecdote about a "guy I know" who had some vague symptoms after getting the vaccine.

The listener is then supposed to believe that the pro-vaccine expert is uninformed and simply parroting the official narrative, whereas Joe Rogan is the smart one who sees the big picture and can "tell it like it is". In this case, Joe Rogan sees that Vitamin D and a healthy diet is all the protection you need from COVID and that the vaccine should be avoided.

But it's often nonsense. Rogan's vaccine opinions are not just unvetted, they're built from the ground up on a foundation of flimsy anecdotes and conspiracy theories with a complete disregard for the science.

He plays the "both sides" card to build up the anecdotes and conspiracy theories while tearing down the well-researched science in order to create an illusion of presenting both sides fairly. But to get there, he has to go out of his way to downplay the most robust information while exaggerating the least trustworthy.

It's not about having different opinions. It's about misrepresenting the robustness of each.

Re: Stop spending so much time being trolled by billionaire corps

#74

Post by foresto »

tinalumfoil wrote: post #44

I really like the core idea here: media used to be a push model, social media turned it into a pull model but they're trying to wrest it back. I always hated the push model of social media, which is why most of the online content I consume is via rss, including Twitter [0]. But I never thought of traditional news media media as being a push model. It makes so much intuitive sense when you say it: the reason I read ne…

> not sure of they actually have rss feeds but my rss reader supports them

Nitter makes Twitter tolerable, and helpfully adds RSS links that should work with any reader.

For example, https://nitter.net/eff has this link at the top: https://nitter.net/eff/rss

Re: Stop spending so much time being trolled by billionaire corps

#76

Post by mrjangles »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #59
tinalumfoil wrote: post #44

I really like the core idea here: media used to be a push model, social media turned it into a pull model but they're trying to wrest it back. I always hated the push model of social media, which is why most of the online content I consume is via rss, including Twitter [0]. But I never thought of traditional news media media as being a push model. It makes so much intuitive sense when you say it: the reason I read ne…

> That's different than my programming blog subscriptions: I follow them because I've decided what they write is important to me. This makes a lot of sense for blogs and sources that are specifically focused on one subject (e.g. programming). But I'm not convinced it's as big of a difference for something like the Joe Rogan podcast (the author specifically recommends this at the end of the article). On a site like Tw…

I think everyone has the urge to push their views onto other people once they get a platform. It is something instinctual deep within us. We tell ourselves that it is because we are so much smarter than everyone else, and we are the bearers of the one true truth, but really it is just our animal Will To Power at work. Thousands of years of evolution and the need to dominate other groups is really what is driving us to do this.

Anyway, my point is that "Push" is the natural state of being. One has to work very hard to do otherwise. Someone who doesn't push, or who comes close to this, stands out above the crowd. I can think of very few hosts who do this. Joe Rogan goes out of his way to do this - to get all sorts of guests on with all sorts of perspectives - then he just shuts up and listens and asks questions. Yes he has started pushing his opinions a little, but he is better than most everyone else that I can think of.

Re: Stop spending so much time being trolled by billionaire corps

#77

Post by PragmaticPulp »

iaabtpbtpnn wrote: post #3

Sounded pretty good until "Joe Rogan is also fantastic" at the end there...

It does feel ironic that he talked about avoiding "push" media sources from billionaires, only to turn around and recommend a "push" podcaster with a 9-figure podcasting contract and a track record of pushing misinformation.

Re: Stop spending so much time being trolled by billionaire corps

#78

Post by refurb »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #73
refurb wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Terrible! I want any podcast host to carefully vet any information on their show so I only hear ApproveIdeas(tm) as it’s clear I might get DangerousIdeas(tm) should I hear information not officially approved.

Part of Rogan's schtick is conspiracy theories. There's a lot of "just asking questions" style conversations where he tries to build up this idea that the "officially approved" narrative has a lot of holes, which he often uses to insert an alternate opinion that isn't subject to the same scrutiny. His anti-vaccine content is a perfect example: He invites actual experts on his show, but then interrupts them and brings…

It’s an entertainment podcast not an FDA Advisory committee or scientific panel.

I can tune into CNN or FoxNews and hear unvetted stories as well, so why is Rogan singled out?

If someone is tuning into the podcast to get medical advice then they have bigger problems than listening to Joe Rogan.

Re: Stop spending so much time being trolled by billionaire corps

#80

Post by PragmaticPulp »

mrjangles wrote: post #76
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's different than my programming blog subscriptions: I follow them because I've decided what they write is important to me. This makes a lot of sense for blogs and sources that are specifically focused on one subject (e.g. programming). But I'm not convinced it's as big of a difference for something like the Joe Rogan podcast (the author specifically recommends this at the end of the article). On a site like Tw…

I think everyone has the urge to push their views onto other people once they get a platform. It is something instinctual deep within us. We tell ourselves that it is because we are so much smarter than everyone else, and we are the bearers of the one true truth, but really it is just our animal Will To Power at work. Thousands of years of evolution and the need to dominate other groups is really what is driving us t…

> to get all sorts of guests on with all sorts of perspectives - then he just shuts up and listens and asks questions

Hard disagree. That may have been the case when he started the podcast but it's famously not the case now.

Even the Joe Rogan fans are upset about Rogan talking over experts and forcing his own biased opinions over the evidence: https://www.reddit.com/r/JoeRogan/comments/pg3edl/im_not_gon...

For a more recent example, apparently he mistook an obviously satirical video as actual government media and criticized the Australian government for it, before somebody pointed out that it's [obviously] a satire video: https://www.instagram.com/p/CVvyYXzgrD2/

This stuff isn't "just asking questions". Viewpoints are being heavily pushed, but Rogan does a good job of pretending he's "just asking questions".

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