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Ask HN: Why is medical software so hard to use?

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Ask HN: Why is medical software so hard to use?

#1
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This is coverage of electronic medical records by The Times, in reverse-chronological time, at the clip of about an article a year:

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"Do Electronic Records Help or Hinder Patient Care?" [1]

"Our Hospital’s New Software Frets About My ‘Deficiencies’" [2]

"Broken, wasteful, inhuman, expensive, deadly" [3]

"Why Health Care Tech Is Still So Bad" [4]

"Tech Rivalries Impede Digital Medical Record Sharing" [5]

"Doctors Find Barriers to Sharing Digital Medical Records" [6]

"Doctors complain that the electronic systems are clunky and time-consuming" [7]

"The Cost of Electronic Medical Records" [8]

"Usability is the single greatest impediment" [9]

"An Unforeseen Complication of Electronic Medical Records" [10]

"Most Doctors Aren’t Using Electronic Health Records" [11]

"Doctor-Patient-Computer Relationships" [12]

"The Computer Will See You Now" [13]

"There’s no way small practices can effectively implement electronic health records" [14]

[1] https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/20/opinion/letters/electronic-medical-records.html

[2] https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/01/health/epic-electronic-health-records.html

[3] https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/31/opinion/doctors-nurses-and-the-paperwork-crisis-that-could-unite-them.html

[4] https://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/22/opinion/sunday/why-health-care-tech-is-still-so-bad.html

[5] https://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/27/us/electronic-medical-record-sharing-is-hurt-by-business-rivalries.html

[6] https://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/01/business/digital-medical-records-become-common-but-sharing-remains-challenging.html

[7] https://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/09/health/the-ups-and-downs-of-electronic-medical-records-the-digital-doctor.html

[8] https://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/27/opinion/the-cost-of-electronic-medical-records.html

[9] https://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/17/technology/assessing-the-effect-of-standards-in-digital-health-records-on-innovation.html

[10] https://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/22/health/22chen.html

[11] https://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/19/technology/19patient.html

[12] https://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/11/opinion/l11medical.html

[13] https://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/06/opinion/06coben.html

[14] https://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/01/business/01unbox.html

My favorite is "An Unforseen Complication of Medical Records", despite the several articles before it about the complications of medical records.

Re: Ask HN: Why is medical software so hard to use?

#3
post #2

What makes it so hard for innovation is all the rules and regulations like being HIPAA compliant etc.... Regulations are a tax on innovation and a floor on prices dropping (usually leading to prices increasing).

Is this really the case? Finance is highly regulated and there is a lot of superb software.

Re: Ask HN: Why is medical software so hard to use?

#5
Isn't it the classical enterprise software situation where the user is not the buyer? These are bought by administrators from sales reps based on features that appeal to "leadership". Its the same with any SAP or other major vendor implementation, the software itself is a steaming pile of crap, but it ticks all the boxes a non-user wants to see (compliance and reporting and whatnot). There is no incentive for the vendor to "waste" money on usability.

Re: Ask HN: Why is medical software so hard to use?

#6

Isn't it the classical enterprise software situation where the user is not the buyer? These are bought by administrators from sales reps based on features that appeal to "leadership". Its the same with any SAP or other major vendor implementation, the software itself is a steaming pile of crap, but it ticks all the boxes a non-user wants to see (compliance and reporting and whatnot). There is no incentive for the ven…

Really? I know medical professionals waste 50%+ of their highly-compensated time because of poor usability.

If that isn't a cost to the buyer, I don't know what is.

Re: Ask HN: Why is medical software so hard to use?

#7
Because the primary concern of all projects is compliance. Building the thing is an afterthought and it's gonna be expensive and take for ever to deliver anyway so everyone just throws their hands up and accepts it.

Our whole system is designed around making Healthcare this highly moated bonanza for insiders who know how to gameplay beaurocracy so I'd argue its not much of a surprise that that's what we get: a bloated beaurocracy

Re: Ask HN: Why is medical software so hard to use?

#8
Most of the major medical records systems are iterations of 1980-1990s platforms that (particularly in the case of cerner, or which I have an ungodly quantity of experience with) were adapted from accounting software and are focused on billing (which is not really important where I practice but is a impact of the US medical system and incentives).

The systems have horrific UI/UX with no consistency and every time a new feature was decided to be added a new button was added (ie imagine Word 97 with every toolbar enabled).

As a clinician, you lose the ability to use nice shorthand (ie on morning rounds, the fastest way to convey your examination findings is to stick figure a person and draw lines/ticks/circles/x es through parts of the body to indicate your findings).

You lose all of this with an emr.

The long term contracts and aggressive vendor lock-in (cerner operates a proprietary database and doesn’t play nice with letting other people have access) means we are stuck with these systems possibly forever.

If they were to be redesigned from the ground up it would be totally different but because they have microsoftjuggernaut style BD power the situation is really unlikely to be resolved in anyone’s natural lifespan.

The impact on clinician well-being is immense. The impact on patient flow is immense - a deloitte study of Cerner Firstnet[0] in New South Wales emergency departments indicated a significant decrease in patient throughout - not surprising given the increased burden of administrative responsibilities imposed on clinicians, however something that has not ever been resolved - I work in NSW emergency departments and in places that still do not use first net I can cover 10-12 patients in a shift; in a first net hospital I am lucky to break 8

[0] https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/docplayer.net/amp/3816353-Do...

Ultimately they are not fit for purpose, they are not designed for humans, they create patient safety risks (whilst now I think potentially decreasing some other risks due to automated systems monitoring observations etc) - medication management is horrific and makes it easy to make errors - and the situation is unlikely to change

[0] https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/docplayer.net/amp/3816353-Do...

Re: Ask HN: Why is medical software so hard to use?

#9

OP here: Every medical professional I've spoken to, including relatives, has nothing but vitriol for medical records software. I got blood drawn recently and the nurse spent 20min helping someone enter medical codes into EPIC.

It’s billing that’s the problem. The software has to account for all sorts of billing codes to make sure it’s billed correctly.

I’ve said it before but I think medical billing is the problem with healthcare in the US.

Re: Ask HN: Why is medical software so hard to use?

#10
post #7

Because the primary concern of all projects is compliance. Building the thing is an afterthought and it's gonna be expensive and take for ever to deliver anyway so everyone just throws their hands up and accepts it. Our whole system is designed around making Healthcare this highly moated bonanza for insiders who know how to gameplay beaurocracy so I'd argue its not much of a surprise that that's what we get: a bloate…

Is this the case?

Transportation and logistics (especially national and international) is highly regulated, but the software is highly usable compared to medical records.

Hedge fund automated trading software needs to pass innumerable compliance requirements. But the software is superb.

Low-latency arbitrage software has incredible compliance burdens, but is some of the best engineered code on the planet.

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