Meadowlark, a DAW written in Rust • Hacker News Board

Re: Meadowlark, a DAW written in Rust

#21

Post by tekstar » Tue, Nov 02, 2021, 4:42 PM UTC

kierenj wrote: post #15

beepbooptheory wrote: post #2

from the design doc: >Non-Goals ... Non-4/4 time signatures and time signature changes ... Just curious from a software design perspective why this is the case. I would, naively, assume you build up software primitives that wouldn't assume a time signature, making it trivial to support whatever segmentation of time. Why not just have a pulse and divide it however is needed? Also I see nothing about OSC support, is th…

So strange! Very much add odds with the "full-featured" label. No Mission: Impossible theme (5/4)? No Pink Floyd - Money (7/4)? No Seal - Kiss from a rose? No Hey Ya!? Metallica - One / Nothing Else Matters? Fallin'? Edit: This was under "non-goals" for the MVP . Completely understandable...

Only part of Money is 7/4, it switches to 4/4.. so you'd need time signature automation as well :)

Re: Meadowlark, a DAW written in Rust

#22

Post by mrob » Tue, Nov 02, 2021, 4:44 PM UTC

beepbooptheory wrote: post #2

from the design doc: >Non-Goals ... Non-4/4 time signatures and time signature changes ... Just curious from a software design perspective why this is the case. I would, naively, assume you build up software primitives that wouldn't assume a time signature, making it trivial to support whatever segmentation of time. Why not just have a pulse and divide it however is needed? Also I see nothing about OSC support, is th…

>Do love first class support for non 12-TET!

Disappointing that it assumes octaves though. There are important scales without them, e.g:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohlen%E2%80%93Pierce_scale

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamma_scale

Re: Meadowlark, a DAW written in Rust

#23

Post by ZoomZoomZoom » Tue, Nov 02, 2021, 4:46 PM UTC

It's also a bit disappointing to see another project chooses proprietary service for the communication. I joined #rust-audio:matrix.org almost a year ago and just figured the project was dead since the room isn't bridged and it's completely quiet there. Turns out everyone's on Discord.

If you're a musician, sound industry professional or just a hobbyist, I invite you to join the Mixing room on the Matrix.org server (https://matrix.to/#/#mixing:matrix.org) for a general chat.

Re: Meadowlark, a DAW written in Rust

#24

Post by lijogdfljk » Tue, Nov 02, 2021, 4:47 PM UTC

beepbooptheory wrote: post #2

from the design doc: >Non-Goals ... Non-4/4 time signatures and time signature changes ... Just curious from a software design perspective why this is the case. I would, naively, assume you build up software primitives that wouldn't assume a time signature, making it trivial to support whatever segmentation of time. Why not just have a pulse and divide it however is needed? Also I see nothing about OSC support, is th…

Agree with your question. I'm in the planning stages of a music notation app for myself and supporting arbitrary time signatures seems (from the ignorant outside!) as foundational as supporting a single time signature.

Super ignorant on my part, but still. I suspected that the time signature was a calculation relative to the BPM. Once i have the difficulty for calculating how long a single beat is, and the significance of the beat, i would expect i could apply those primitives to any time signature. Which is to say once i write the function, don't i support all time signatures?

Super curious if this is not the case.

Re: Meadowlark, a DAW written in Rust

#25

Post by rectang » Tue, Nov 02, 2021, 4:52 PM UTC

gmueckl wrote: post #13

How is this titled "fully featured" when it's still in its early stages with very little code in the repository (and most of what is there looking like an exercise in software architecture)? Is the "it's in rust" hype so strong now that even a few lines of code covered in ambition are sufficient to make the front page of HN?

It's aspirational, jeez. Their eventual goal is to be a "fully featured DAW" as opposed to some other kind of tool. At least that's how I interpret it.

Re: Meadowlark, a DAW written in Rust

#26

Post by lijogdfljk » Tue, Nov 02, 2021, 4:53 PM UTC

drogus wrote: post #18

falcolas wrote: post #16

Who, developers aside, gives a single whit what language it's written in? Just give us something useful, expandable, and with ongoing support for when bugs do appear. So much digital ink (and the associated mindshare) wasted in the design doc whinging on about how much Rust is better than C++ that they hardly talk about the DAW itself. And for features, immediately canning MP3, 4/4 time signatures, and sidechain rout…

This site is for developers, isn't it? For me this is interesting, cause I could see myself contributing to a Rust project, I'm guessing there's more people who think that way.

Agreed. Furthermore, Rust is/was imo a controversial language - early on some argued it was "too difficult" to write "real" applications in it.

I'm super interested in real world performance intensive applications written in Rust, Haskell, etc. Language matters to me, even if i don't plan on participating.

Re: Meadowlark, a DAW written in Rust

#27

Post by ZoomZoomZoom » Tue, Nov 02, 2021, 4:54 PM UTC

gmueckl wrote: post #13

How is this titled "fully featured" when it's still in its early stages with very little code in the repository (and most of what is there looking like an exercise in software architecture)? Is the "it's in rust" hype so strong now that even a few lines of code covered in ambition are sufficient to make the front page of HN?

It's called fully-featured only in the design doc, so it's a statement of intentions. Te main repository page clearly states it's "still in the early stages of development".

Re: Meadowlark, a DAW written in Rust

#28

Post by falcolas » Tue, Nov 02, 2021, 4:54 PM UTC

drogus wrote: post #18

falcolas wrote: post #16

Who, developers aside, gives a single whit what language it's written in? Just give us something useful, expandable, and with ongoing support for when bugs do appear. So much digital ink (and the associated mindshare) wasted in the design doc whinging on about how much Rust is better than C++ that they hardly talk about the DAW itself. And for features, immediately canning MP3, 4/4 time signatures, and sidechain rout…

This site is for developers, isn't it? For me this is interesting, cause I could see myself contributing to a Rust project, I'm guessing there's more people who think that way.

This website is for developers; the product feature page should be about the product, not the programmers.

Re: Meadowlark, a DAW written in Rust

#29

Post by tialaramex » Tue, Nov 02, 2021, 4:56 PM UTC

mpfundstein wrote: post #9

"proudly written in Rust" ... what is it with this Rust guys? lol but locks cool. are there actual screenshot available? the notes editor looks fun. loved the one from fruity loops A LOT (awesome profram)

One nice thing about Rust is that there's an excellent chance you can actually modify this code. That's enormously important for anybody who has even modest programming skills.

For Free Software projects it's often under-estimated how much contribution you can get from the long tail of people who've got one small change they'd like to make. IF they can make the change. Otherwise you miss out.

Let's give two extreme examples to calibrate, the first one is real, the second for reasons that will become obvious is hypothetical:

1. My friend Chris wanted to do a trivial thing in Gimp, but like, a lot of times. So, he finds out how to write scripts that run inside Gimp, he writes a script, it works immediately - problem solved, might as well mail it off in case anybody else finds it useful. Last time I looked, his script is out-of-the-box in Gimp.

2. Back in 2016 if you wrote a small non-bug-fix change for Apache OpenOffice, you needed to build the full C++ application. Then you could send patches over to their dev team. If you'd done this, those patches still aren't in a shipping product, the next non-bug-fix release AOO 4.2 was at the time scheduled for "soon" hopefully 2017. Last time I looked they were lamenting that "We have missed our goal on going into the beta in 2019" but still hadn't shipped anything.

Re: Meadowlark, a DAW written in Rust

#30

Post by romwell » Tue, Nov 02, 2021, 4:56 PM UTC

royjacobs wrote: post #8

jb1991 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is an odd "non-goal" indeed, and also unfortunate; it's like making a painting app but not giving users access to basic colors.

The document states this is a non-goal for the MVP, not a non-goal for the final product.

"Ability to make turns is a non-goal for the MVP of the car we're building"

You can't record a cover of Queen's We Are The Champions or Somebody To Love without struggling with the UI if 3/4 is not supported. Or Blondie's Call Me. Or a plethora of other popular music.

"Fully Featured (in our imagination)"