Trump’s new social media platform found using Mastodon code • Hacker News Board

Re: Trump’s new social media platform found using Mastodon code

#361

Post by krageon » Tue, Nov 02, 2021, 2:06 PM UTC

roenxi wrote: post #134

s7r wrote: post #121

In terms of "antithetical values", the machine learning project ml5js.org actually did something about this. They bound their open-source license to a Code of Conduct¹, which forbids the use of their ML software for (1) discriminating against marginalized communities, (2) building tools that disingenuously manipulate public opinion, (3) building tools of mass surveillance and prediction to repress the rights of peopl…

If all software was licensed that way, 5-15 years would pass then suddenly there'd be a whole bunch of "Wow, Stallman was right again! We should have been using free software licenses!" style articles. Restricting software use to only people approved by the creators is a terrible idea. Society has to operate with some level of trust that even people we disagree with, using methods we don't approve of, have the potent…

> Society has to operate with some level of trust that even people we disagree with, using methods we don't approve of, have the potential to improve the world.

This is emphatically wrong. For at least two to three generations society has operated with a large part of it understanding that another large part of it is unethical and wrong (i.e. conscientious objectors and folks that sympathise but cannot bring up the courage to do so). If being so understanding is what made the world better, then 1930 would truly have been a golden age.

Re: Trump’s new social media platform found using Mastodon code

#362

Post by Kye » Tue, Nov 02, 2021, 2:06 PM UTC

eterevsky wrote: post #186

jlangenauer wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? The creators created the software, they can put any conditions they please on how others might use it. They're under no moral or legal obligation to allow people to use the fruits of their labors, except as they permit.

They can, which doesn't mean they should. Also, I think a person has a mortal obligation to allow that their political position is at least partially flawed.

Believing in human rights is only political because certain normal human biological variations and geographic distributions have been politicized by people who want to use software to strengthen that politicization. Encoding reason regarding treatment of those variations and distributions in license agreements is a patch to address politicization.

Re: Trump’s new social media platform found using Mastodon code

#363

Post by im3w1l » Tue, Nov 02, 2021, 2:07 PM UTC

ncallaway wrote: post #244

cblconfederate wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> of course we would prefer if people so antithetical to our values did not use and benefit from our labour it is clear that they are not interested in coopting them

…and yet the only actions they’ve taken were to send a letter asking them to come into compliance with the AGPL within 30 days.

It's worth pointing out that this is much more adversarial than is typical. https://www.fsf.org/licensing/enforcement-principles

Re: Trump’s new social media platform found using Mastodon code

#364

Post by krageon » Tue, Nov 02, 2021, 2:07 PM UTC

krferriter wrote: post #323

andrepd wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get it. What does "allowing that one's politics is partially flawed" have to do with not wanting one's project used for surveillance, weapons control, etc?

If you have a political position that all weapons are bad and all surveillance is bad then I think that is a deeply flawed viewpoint. What we want to avoid is improper use of weapons and surveillance. Where those things go into the realm of abuse. Of course, "abuse" is a subjective word for these things too, but I think there's a general consensus that some things are bad.

> What we want to avoid is improper use of weapons and surveillance

All use of weapons and surveillance is abusive, so what you are saying "we" (who?) want is not something that I find reasonable.

Re: Trump’s new social media platform found using Mastodon code

#365

Post by Chris2048 » Tue, Nov 02, 2021, 2:07 PM UTC

macinjosh wrote: post #315

ModernMech wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> [snark]Almost lost the Republic on Jan 6th to a whole lot of shoving.[/snark] Snark aside, the danger of Jan 6 was not shoving - It was people deciding to do the wrong thing in the name of gaining power. The insurrectionists who organized January 6 (yes it was planned) were at the Willard Hotel in a number of suites they called a "War Room" (yes, their words). The entire plan was to delay certification of Joe Biden…

> No elections will be trusted by either side after that happens. This is the Democrats fault. Their shoe-in candidate lost and they spent four years bleating that Trump was illegitimate and failed to prove it with a far reaching investigation. _That_ is where trust started to be lost.

I have to agree. They didn't explicitly lie like Trump did/does, but they (or at least, Hilary specifically) did repeatedly mention that they "won the popular vote" as if it was relevant - they wanted to imply the same thing, that Trumps presidency was unfair if not illegitimate.

Re: Trump’s new social media platform found using Mastodon code

#366

Post by dtoznayxvf » Tue, Nov 02, 2021, 2:07 PM UTC

Trump MADE twitter. I have a 3 letter twitter account from 05 or 06 when it was beta. Until Trump was on Twitter in 15 I considered it a big yawn that made no money -- gossip for total retards. Hate him or love him, and with Trump there doesn't seem to be any middle ground, this would have MADE mastodon into SOMETHING instead it is STILL an irrelevant pet project. Maybe they are afraid of losing too many arguments? Only reason to ban those who disagree with you. The license is just being used as an excuse. The rights holders don't even believe their own arguments they are just trying to stake out a plausible position. Phonies.

Re: Trump’s new social media platform found using Mastodon code

#367

Post by scohesc » Tue, Nov 02, 2021, 2:07 PM UTC

s7r wrote: post #121

In terms of "antithetical values", the machine learning project ml5js.org actually did something about this. They bound their open-source license to a Code of Conduct¹, which forbids the use of their ML software for (1) discriminating against marginalized communities, (2) building tools that disingenuously manipulate public opinion, (3) building tools of mass surveillance and prediction to repress the rights of peopl…

That sounds like a bunch of very wishy-washy vague terms that open source licenses shouldn't implement.

You're going to get a lot of companies that don't want to deal with the legal hassle of these special terms not contributing to open source software.

Whether the developers want that or not, I guess that's their choice.

Re: Trump’s new social media platform found using Mastodon code

#368

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Nov 02, 2021, 2:08 PM UTC

jrootabega wrote: post #30

> As far as personal feelings are concerned, of course we would prefer if people so antithetical to our values did not use and benefit from our labour And sensible people would prefer that license violations would be published and pursued fairly, and personal feelings kept personal, rather than creating a soft list of people and perspectives whose online/computing freedom is less important than others.

[deleted]

Re: Trump’s new social media platform found using Mastodon code

#369

Post by cabalamat » Tue, Nov 02, 2021, 2:09 PM UTC

themaninthedark wrote: post #177

geewee wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? In what world does using software to marginalize people or mislead the public create a better world?

See, this is where the creators of the CoC made a mistake, either of malice or ignorance. >(Do Not)Use ml5.js to build tools that discriminate against marginalized communities That could be better put as >(Do Not)Use ml5.js to build tools that discriminate By adding in "marginalized communities", they are creating loopholes. Some discrimination is good, as long as it is to people we don't like. Is discrimination agai…

> Chinese are the majority of the world population.

No, they are roughly 1/5th of it.

Re: Trump’s new social media platform found using Mastodon code

#370

Post by smhenderson » Tue, Nov 02, 2021, 2:09 PM UTC

adventured wrote: post #289

smhenderson wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But he did violate their terms of service over and over while in office. You could argue that they should have booted him sooner, after a few warnings and repeated violations. And they can argue that they gave him, and other political figures, extra leeway due to their public positions and their newsworthiness. But at the end of the day he was repeatedly given special treatment that most of us would never get on any…

> But he did violate their terms of service over and over while in office. One of the primary issues is that Twitter has routinely granted privileged protected status to their favored political side, and refused to ban prominent people on the left that have behaved dramatically in violation of their policies [1][2]. There were a huge number of examples of it from the left during the unhinged Nick Sandermann cultural…

I certainly don't doubt there are plenty of other examples and I don't have any love for Twitter or any other SM platform these days.

But as far as I could see, only seeing the former president's tweets in the news because I'm not a Twitter user, he was also granted protected status. So I fail to see it as some leftist conspiracy and find it more likely that Twitter just allows users that attract more attention this privileged status because it's in their best interest to do so.

Honestly, I don't know who Nick Sandermann is and could not care less about what Jane Fonda and Spike Lee are up to on Twitter. You've just pointed out some great examples of why I left it behind a long time ago.

However, as a US citizen, I do care what my president gets up to, even on social media. Given it's outsized influence on our society these days, I'm probably more interested in what the president is saying on social media, where he, and every other politician, seem to be able to get away with saying things they'd never have said on mainstream television or on traditional media not that long ago.