Trump’s new social media platform found using Mastodon code • Hacker News Board

Re: Trump’s new social media platform found using Mastodon code

#351

Post by rubyist5eva » Tue, Nov 02, 2021, 2:01 PM UTC

vntok wrote: post #313

rubyist5eva wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't legally have access to the platform, you have no claim on license enforcement. The platform wasn't officially launched, and the accounts were used by exploiting a misconfigured page. They are under no obligation to release the source code, yet.

Exactly. Truth Social could actually sue any one claiming they used the platform for abusing a security flaw to obtain and maintain access to a protected computer system. That would be hilarious.

There might even also be a case for libel.

Re: Trump’s new social media platform found using Mastodon code

#352

Post by cabalamat » Tue, Nov 02, 2021, 2:01 PM UTC

Robin_Message wrote: post #302

fvdessen wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Everyone is free to use the software. [...] The rest of your reply disagrees with your first sentence. It seems that only the people who share ml5.js values are allowed to use the software. There's no problem with that, but they should be clear about it. They should also state clearly that ml5.js is not free or open source software, as its license violates the first principle of Free Software: > The freedom to run…

> The rest of your reply disagrees with your first sentence. It seems that only the people who share ml5.js values are allowed to use the software. Any can use the software only for purposes in line with ml5.js values . So everyone is free to use the software, just not for all the purposes that any particular person might choose. It's something like a bar with a "no racist language" sign: anyone can use the bar, they…

> only for purposes in line with ml5.js values

There are 2 caveats to that:

1. they can change their values at any time

2. they can decide at their sole discretion that your use isn't in line with their values, and you have no recourse.

> It's something like a bar with a "no racist language" sign: anyone can use the bar

The difference is that one wouldn't use the bar as a platform to build a business on, whereas one might build a business on software.

Re: Trump’s new social media platform found using Mastodon code

#353

Post by cabalamat » Tue, Nov 02, 2021, 2:01 PM UTC

moritonal wrote: post #218

s7r wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Restricting software use to only people approved by the creators is a terrible idea. Everyone is free to use the software. If a project is found to be in violation of the Code of Conduct (e.g. discriminating against marginalized communities, manipulating public opinion, automating weapons) than the community developing the software takes steps to remedy the problem with the reported violator, or the project falls o…

If I interpret all this correctly. What if the project was bought out by the kind of people who run patent-troll companies? Suddenly your retroactive license that can at any point be invalid based on someone's opinion of wrong is a giant liability. I'd struggle to recommend such a risk.

Exactly.

Re: Trump’s new social media platform found using Mastodon code

#354

Post by ed25519FUUU » Tue, Nov 02, 2021, 2:01 PM UTC

usui wrote: post #4

Does a history of enforcement help in cases like this? The article itself says that Truth Social is "antithetical" to Mastodon's values, but that there's nothing they can do about the usage of their software other than license violations. It sounds like they have a bias to enforce their license in this case. If Mastodon has a weak history of enforcing their license to other organizations, does it weaken the case? I'm…

The near universal agreement here (from non-lawyers) that lack of past enforcement won’t affect future enforcement is a signal to me that it actually might.

Re: Trump’s new social media platform found using Mastodon code

#355

Post by rsynnott » Tue, Nov 02, 2021, 2:02 PM UTC

roenxi wrote: post #98

dmm wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People were able to access the service and create accounts. Those people are entitled to the sources. This would immediately go away if they just posted a tarball of the almost certainly unmodified sources. I guess nobody running this understands what's going on?

> This would immediately go away... This platform is going to be under continuous attack from all angles. The company has to be ready to be boycotted, licenses revoked, regulation enacted, smear campaigns run, deplatformed by infrastructure providers, etc. Their lawyers are going to be the more combative type, when they signed up it was pretty clear the sort of wild-eyed hate that the Trump brand is going to attract…

_Any_ large social network which was violating the AGPL should expect trouble.

> Their lawyers are going to be the more combative type

But probably not the more competent type, based on the prior adventures of Donald Trump. I mean, this is coming from the same people who brought you Four Seasons Total Landscaping.

Re: Trump’s new social media platform found using Mastodon code

#356

Post by Chris2048 » Tue, Nov 02, 2021, 2:04 PM UTC

rubyist5eva wrote: post #207

FemmeAndroid wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They didn’t ‘officially launch’ but the platform was up and running. There isn’t a ‘you don’t need to comply if it’s an alpha test’ clause in the AGPL.

If you don't legally have access to the platform, you have no claim on license enforcement. The platform wasn't officially launched, and the accounts were used by exploiting a misconfigured page. They are under no obligation to release the source code, yet.

> the accounts were used by exploiting a misconfigured page

This is an important detail; is this absolutely proven?

Re: Trump’s new social media platform found using Mastodon code

#357

Post by rsynnott » Tue, Nov 02, 2021, 2:04 PM UTC

wizzwizz4 wrote: post #116

roenxi wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This would immediately go away... This platform is going to be under continuous attack from all angles. The company has to be ready to be boycotted, licenses revoked, regulation enacted, smear campaigns run, deplatformed by infrastructure providers, etc. Their lawyers are going to be the more combative type, when they signed up it was pretty clear the sort of wild-eyed hate that the Trump brand is going to attract…

I doubt there'll be much boycotting; the people who might boycott won't want to use it in the first place. Certainly no regulation will be enacted. I doubt a smear campaign, either; if it's anything like Twitter, a simple screenshot of the homepage will be enough. So the only things are: • licenses revoked – except with free software, this can only happen if you violate the license • deplatformed by infrastructure pr…

> licenses revoked – except with free software, this can only happen if you violate the license

Eh, there _are_ commercial licenses which would have a "don't bring us into disrepute" clause, but you'd imagine they'll probably avoid those. Mind you you'd also imagine they'd avoid violating the AGPL, and yet here we are.

Re: Trump’s new social media platform found using Mastodon code

#358

Post by cabalamat » Tue, Nov 02, 2021, 2:05 PM UTC

Dumblydorr wrote: post #251

roenxi wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If all software was licensed that way, 5-15 years would pass then suddenly there'd be a whole bunch of "Wow, Stallman was right again! We should have been using free software licenses!" style articles. Restricting software use to only people approved by the creators is a terrible idea. Society has to operate with some level of trust that even people we disagree with, using methods we don't approve of, have the potent…

Is it really a terrible idea to restrict your software from being used to control weaponry? To spread lies about science, like climate change denial or vaccine lies? To host child pornography sharing? These above scenarios amount to handing criminals and bad actors powerful technological tools which allow them to increase harms done to society. This is a software company's choice, there is no law that states a compan…

> Is it really a terrible idea to restrict your software from being used [to do all sorts of things]

Possibly. If the list of restrictions is ill-defined and ever-changing then it opens up a can of worms, which in practise means no-one will use the software.

Re: Trump’s new social media platform found using Mastodon code

#359

Post by ed25519FUUU » Tue, Nov 02, 2021, 2:05 PM UTC

papito wrote: post #292

usui wrote: post #4

Does a history of enforcement help in cases like this? The article itself says that Truth Social is "antithetical" to Mastodon's values, but that there's nothing they can do about the usage of their software other than license violations. It sounds like they have a bias to enforce their license in this case. If Mastodon has a weak history of enforcing their license to other organizations, does it weaken the case? I'm…

Expecting Donald Trump to observe the rules and norms that are not strictly enforced is extremely naive. He thinks only suckers do that. What does he do? He ignores all of that and gets ahead. That's why I call people like him "termites of civilization". They slowly eat at the foundation, until the society itself collapses. We are already seeing it. The pandemic of selfishness and shamelessness, and overwhelming rude…

So weird that everything started collapsing exactly on January 20th, 2017.

The people who have been in power for 40 years are definitely NOT the problem. It was just that last guy.

Re: Trump’s new social media platform found using Mastodon code

#360

Post by ospzfmbbzr » Tue, Nov 02, 2021, 2:05 PM UTC

Trump MADE twitter. I have a 3 letter twitter account from 05 or 06 when it was beta. Until Trump was on Twitter in 15 I considered it a big yawn that made no money -- gossip for total retards. Hate him or love him, and with Trump there doesn't seem to be any middle ground, this would have MADE mastodon into SOMETHING instead it is STILL an irrelevant pet project. Maybe they are afraid of losing too many arguments? Only reason to ban those who disagree with you. The license is just being used as an excuse. The rights holders don't even believe their own arguments they are just trying to stake out a plausible position. Phonies.