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Trump’s new social media platform found using Mastodon code

blog.joinmastodon.org

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Re: Trump’s new social media platform found using Mastodon code

#241

Post by fvdessen »

s7r wrote: post #191
roenxi wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If all software was licensed that way, 5-15 years would pass then suddenly there'd be a whole bunch of "Wow, Stallman was right again! We should have been using free software licenses!" style articles. Restricting software use to only people approved by the creators is a terrible idea. Society has to operate with some level of trust that even people we disagree with, using methods we don't approve of, have the potent…

> Restricting software use to only people approved by the creators is a terrible idea. Everyone is free to use the software. If a project is found to be in violation of the Code of Conduct (e.g. discriminating against marginalized communities, manipulating public opinion, automating weapons) than the community developing the software takes steps to remedy the problem with the reported violator, or the project falls o…

> Everyone is free to use the software. [...]

The rest of your reply disagrees with your first sentence. It seems that only the people who share ml5.js values are allowed to use the software. There's no problem with that, but they should be clear about it. They should also state clearly that ml5.js is not free or open source software, as its license violates the first principle of Free Software:

> The freedom to run the program as you wish, for any purpose (freedom 0).

And the similar principle in the OSI definition of Open Source

> No discrimination against fields of endeavor: The license must not restrict anyone from making use of the program in a specific field of endeavor. For example, it may not restrict the program from being used in a business, or from being used for genetic research.

Re: Trump’s new social media platform found using Mastodon code

#242

Post by ghostoftiber »

Mastadon: "Trump is using our software!"

Also Mastadon: "Lol Trumps social media site got hacked!"

Also Also Mastadon: "Changes to the look and feel of the site violate our license!"

OK that's not encouraging anyone to use their software. I have a feeling this is much more a knee jerk reaction to who is using their software rather than a well thought out complaint.

I think the most important part of this debacle is that the site itself wasn't supposed to be launched. This is the equivalent of someone leaking footage of (lets say) a baseball being thrown at a truck window, and the window breaking, and everyone going "oh well that's obviously rubbish" in Jeremy Clarkson's voice. Nevermind that the truck was obviously a mock-up.

Re: Trump’s new social media platform found using Mastodon code

#243

Post by [deleted] »

themaninthedark wrote: post #177
geewee wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? In what world does using software to marginalize people or mislead the public create a better world?

See, this is where the creators of the CoC made a mistake, either of malice or ignorance. >(Do Not)Use ml5.js to build tools that discriminate against marginalized communities That could be better put as >(Do Not)Use ml5.js to build tools that discriminate By adding in "marginalized communities", they are creating loopholes. Some discrimination is good, as long as it is to people we don't like. Is discrimination agai…

[deleted]

Re: Trump’s new social media platform found using Mastodon code

#244

Post by ncallaway »

cblconfederate wrote: post #187
monooso wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They should have tried to get them license compliant That's precisely what Mastodon is trying to do. In fact, that's _all_ they're trying to do, as the article made clear.

> of course we would prefer if people so antithetical to our values did not use and benefit from our labour it is clear that they are not interested in coopting them

…and yet the only actions they’ve taken were to send a letter asking them to come into compliance with the AGPL within 30 days.

Re: Trump’s new social media platform found using Mastodon code

#245

Post by MomoXenosaga »

kreeben wrote: post #27
rogual wrote: post #10

Do we really have to give this guy the #1 Hacker News story? He was fading into the background so nicely.

I think that looking upon him as The One Who's Name We Shall Not Speak and effectively killing him on the internet will lead to him becoming a martyr among his supporters. Considering his diverse support from a number of different grass root and/or radical movements, I would say it could backfire on you, hard. We've seen what powers he bestows. These will increase with martyrdom.

Anyone who thinks deplatforming works should read Goebbels.

Re: Trump’s new social media platform found using Mastodon code

#246

Post by [deleted] »

MomoXenosaga wrote: post #198
s7r wrote: post #121

In terms of "antithetical values", the machine learning project ml5js.org actually did something about this. They bound their open-source license to a Code of Conduct¹, which forbids the use of their ML software for (1) discriminating against marginalized communities, (2) building tools that disingenuously manipulate public opinion, (3) building tools of mass surveillance and prediction to repress the rights of peopl…

I wonder just how far people are willing to take their wokeism. So far neither the Pentagon nor CIA has had any problems recruiting scientists and software developers. With idealism I've discovered that words are rarely followed by action.

[deleted]

Re: Trump’s new social media platform found using Mastodon code

#247

Post by h2odragon »

lettergram wrote: post #185

Mastodon has also banned Gab and others from the network that they disagree with. The whole point of a federated system is free speech... yet they have spent a lot of time trying to kick out people who disagree with them. Frankly, it’s disheartening I want to know what the communists, fascists, republicans, democrats, racists, religious, technocrats, etc want to say. It’s so frustrating having everyone in bubbles and…

I also found it deeply amusing that the "fediverse" proclaimed its diversity with "look at all the banned nodes!"

I peeked at the Mastodon code and it gave me a headache before I got through the "required for installation" section. Makes me want to go set up an RBBS node again.

Re: Trump’s new social media platform found using Mastodon code

#248

Post by lghh »

JohnWhigham wrote: post #208
h2odragon wrote: post #14

This (possible but technically not yet a) license violation has gotten more press for OSS licenses and enforcement than anything before, I think. Certainly more press than the Vizio thing, which will actually impact a lot more people if anything comes of it.

Amazon violating open source agreements to host their own version of the product and squeeze the life out of the original company? Not a peep. People whose political opinions differ from my own use the software? This must be stopped at once .

I think calling open fascism something as simple as a "differing political opinion" a bit reductive.

Additionally, a former president (and future presidential hopeful) taking advantage of someone in this manor is more newsworthy than a multinational corporation.

Though, I agree with what I assume is also your opinion that that Amazon situation matters more.

Re: Trump’s new social media platform found using Mastodon code

#249

Post by danShumway »

s7r wrote: post #121

In terms of "antithetical values", the machine learning project ml5js.org actually did something about this. They bound their open-source license to a Code of Conduct¹, which forbids the use of their ML software for (1) discriminating against marginalized communities, (2) building tools that disingenuously manipulate public opinion, (3) building tools of mass surveillance and prediction to repress the rights of peopl…

> open-source license to a Code of Conduct

Just a minor note, a license that works this way can't be accurately described as Open Source. It's more accurate to say that ml5.js is an Ethical Source license. See https://ethicalsource.dev/ for more details.

I'm sure this is a name that will get debated as it becomes more common. But personally, speaking just as an outside observer I really like the name Ethical Source. I think it gets across what the movement's priorities are (open access with ethical restrictions). I think it gets across the movement's connections to the Open Source movement and its origins. But it does so in a way that doesn't promote confusion around the fact that the movement does have different philosophies and is a separate licensing scheme. It's a movement that sprung out of a specific objection to Open Source licensing philosophy (https://opensource.org/faq#evil) and makes a targeted pivot (Open->Ethical) to address the concerns it has.

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