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Physics Student Earns PhD at Age 89

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Re: Physics Student Earns PhD at Age 89

#141

Post by barry-cotter »

shoyer wrote: post #95
wanderingmind wrote: post #78

For all the fantasy here, let me remind you doing a PhD at an early age is one of the worst things you can do to your financial security (CS Ph.D being a major exception). It does not teach any employable skills, leads to a very high level of depression/anxiety compared to regular jobs and creates a huge opportunity cost where you miss out saving money early that has true compounding capability. The 2019 Nature surve…

A PhD is certainly not for everyone (or even most), but it's rather unfair to say that it does not teach any employable skills. Even PhDs who go on to work in completely unrelated fields learn how to make progress on poorly defined problems and to advance the frontier of human knowledge. And a PhD is also of course a hard prerequisite for career in academia or research. As for that survey of PhD students, I suspect y…

> As for that survey of PhD students, I suspect you would get similarly dismal reviews of parenthood from parents of 0-5 year old children

No, you wouldn't. Parenthood of small children has many negatives but it doesn't lead to depression in approaching 50% of cases.

Re: Physics Student Earns PhD at Age 89

#143

Post by anaganisk »

1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote: post #19

The title should really be "Earns Second PhD at 89" This is not one of those stories about someone who "always dreamed of earning a PhD". This is an MD who already had a PhD in Biochemistry from MIT.

I guess the goal of titles is make us click, not to give us a TLDR.

Re: Physics Student Earns PhD at Age 89

#144

Post by jzer0cool »

carrolldunham wrote: post #23

A PhD is research training. Is he doing to do research now, or is this just, like everyone seems to be treating it - a big trophy? Does anyone ever stop to question their credentialist mindset? I heard a character in a video game say indignantly "Excuse me, I have a PhD", and I thought, well, that's not realistic dialog because a PhDs is something you have done, not something that you 'have'. But then people here are…

What is PhD research training? Are there any good indicators you might be a good researcher, without yet a full background in the discipline? What what be some of those qualities needed and sought for takin in my a professor. For example, say you just have an undergraduate degree in CS, what might be some ways to show you would be a good candidate without yet having written any publications.

Re: Physics Student Earns PhD at Age 89

#145

Post by wheels »

thatguymike wrote: post #100
tombert wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which I find weird; are European/British PhDs generally considered less valuable than American? I didn’t think they were but there’s a lot I don’t know about this.

One major difference between UK and US undegraduate courses is that when you study undergraduate at a UK university, you _only_ do courses in your chosen course of study. No faffing about for a year or two picking a major, no time spent filling language requirements or taking interesting-sounding courses to scratch an itch. As a result, UK graduating undergraduates tend to have spent more time in their chosen field o…

Germany's basically the same. I've lived here 20 years. I went to a liberal arts college in the US. Shortening the time to getting a PhD is the only argument I could make for the European system vs. a liberal arts system. German even has a word for people who are knowledgeable in their field and nothing else: "fachidiot" (literally field-idiot). Even aside from being a well-rounded individual, the number of times it's helped in my career that I had to take university-level general education classes is huge.

Even with my liberal arts background, and having worked in pretty mathy areas of industry, it's rare that I, say, have to use much from my last two years of CS education. (What they did prepare me for is getting to the point that I can read research papers in areas I've since worked in.)

To be clear: virtually everywhere in the US a CS curriculum takes 4 years. There's no deciding in year three and graduating on time. You could potentially switch to CS from engineering, math or physics and get close.

In Germany at least, in contrast to the US, there's no coursework in a PhD, which I believe is the main thing that makes a PhD shorter than, say, a US PhD directly after a bachelors degree (which is typical in the sciences).

Re: Physics Student Earns PhD at Age 89

#146

Post by azalemeth »

tomsmeding wrote: post #139
onion2k wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A PhD is a full-time job. That should mean it's a 40 hour a week commitment, not that it's the only thing you do for half a decade or more.

Indeed. And while I get your point that it's often more than 40 hours, the reality is also that an 80 hour work week (PhD + job) doesn't work for the vast majority of people. There are people for which it works, but chances are -- statistically -- that you, the reader, are not one of those. So a PhD being a full-time job, even if that means "just" 40 hours, is indeed a reason why full-time job + PhD does not work in…

The main problem in academia is that worldwide those who work a 40 hour week seem to be far less common than those who work, or claim loudly to work, more than 100 (particularly at the earlier career points). I'm lucky enough to have gone beyond the point where I sleep in the lab, but I definitely have done so.

The OP should be able to do a doctorate part time, and in Europe that is definitely doable. The funding and the practicalities are very much subject specific, but it does take a long time -- and is very much a labour of love.

Re: Physics Student Earns PhD at Age 89

#147

Post by Flashtoo »

trenchgun wrote: post #134
trenchgun wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Incorrect. In Europe a bachelors is either 3 or 4 years, and a masters is either 1 or 2 years. Full time. Source: https://ec.europa.eu/education/resources-and-tools/european-...

Of course, it is possible to do a 90 ECTS masters (1 year full time) for two years part time. And it's possible to do a 180 ECTS masters (2 year full time) for four years part time.

A full year is 60 ECTS. 180 would be three years full time.

Re: Physics Student Earns PhD at Age 89

#148

Post by ildon »

tombert wrote: post #25
azhenley wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Professor here. You definitely aren’t too old, but I would never take on a PhD student that wants to continue working elsewhere. A PhD is a full-time job. It took me 6.5 years and was hard enough with very little outside distractions.

> You definitely aren’t too old By "old" I didn't mean actual biological age exactly. I guess the more appropriate word would be something more like "settled". As it stands, I have a mortgage and whatnot to take care of, it's not really realistic for me to quit my job and focus full-time on a PhD for the next 5-6 years. > but I would never take on a PhD student that wants to continue working elsewhere That seems to b…

EU Professor here.

You're right, expectations are very different in the "old continent". Things very quite significantly from country to country, but generally speaking in most EU you can do your PhD while working.

Retrospectively, knowing what I know know, I should add that if I were to start a PhD now I wouldn't trust a university that asks for a full time commitment, no exceptions.

I would be very suspicious that they will burden me with all kind of side activities (e.g. tutoring undergraduate students, handling bureaucracy, paper work, etc.) that are not really of any actual help towards the thesis.

As a professor my view is that PhD students should have quite a lot of "free time" to explore, try different things and fail as many times as possible, with the highest degree of freedom allowed by the domain in which they work. I think that that's at the core of what academic research is all about.

If you don't need lab equipment or anything that requires in person training, I'd say to go absolutely for a remote position as a PhD student. It doesn't really make a huge difference if you can do everything you need in front of a computer.

If you can do your PhD fully remotely, the two most important things are how respected and wel known is the university in which you enrol, and the tutor that will be assigned to you (don't underestimate this!).

Best of luck!

PS you're definitely not too old, and not too settled, as long as you have "hunger" for understanding how things around you work!

Re: Physics Student Earns PhD at Age 89

#149

Post by qxfys »

tombert wrote: post #3

This is really cool. I'm 30 right now, and only just recently finished my bachelors and have been looking to get a PhD, but it's really hard to find a program that will let you work full time while doing it. It doesn't help that a part of me does sort of feel "too old" to do this sometimes. The PhD system in the US is really tailored around the assumption that you haven't entered the corporate world yet. Anyway, it's…

A fellow PhD student here.

Come to Sweden (or, rather, Nordic countries in general). There are a lot of opportunities as an industrial PhD student. There are at least 3 out of 10 PhD students in my group doing research while still working in the industry. Usually, the deal is 80% PhD and 20% industry, but I know someone doing 50:50.

Re: Physics Student Earns PhD at Age 89

#150

Post by arpa »

sytelus wrote: post #128
arpa wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PhD is still a PhD in any continent. How academics organize their work is another question.

It is actually not. Many 3 year PhD or part time ones are not recognized for immigration or jobs in USA.

It's immigration policy, not qualitative PhD difference.
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