Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

University of Florida bars professors from testifying in a voting rights case

npr.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

431–440 of 484 posts

Re: University of Florida bars professors from testifying in a voting rights case

#431

Post by ModernMech »

isoskeles wrote: post #346
notreallyserio wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s also really easy for someone to steal your documents. It’s not unheard of for an abusive partner to steal documents in order to trap their victim. I know your pattern now, you’ll call this another edge case sob story and set it aside because it isn’t convenient for your argument. As for your paper document argument… what is your proposed alternative? You must have one, else you wouldn’t have floated it.

Appreciative to see we've all moved on from, 'voter id is inherently racist,' to, 'what if my dog ate my voter id?' (Aside, today is having fun with quotes day.)

Abusive partners exerting control by restricting access to important documents is a very real problem for many women, and men for that matter. Also this is something abusive parents and human traffickers do. It should not be minimized and trivialized as “my dog ate my voter id”.

Re: University of Florida bars professors from testifying in a voting rights case

#432

Post by davorak »

endisneigh wrote: post #251
denton-scratch wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An expert witness acts as a servant of the court, not as the agent of their employer. Naming the UoF as your employer is simply stating the truth to the court about your credentials; it doesn't mean the UoF has to take responsibility for your testimony.

I agree, but the entire point of the article is that UoF has had an agreement in place with all employees saying that they must get approval in order to serve as an expert witness to begin with.

> I agree, but the entire point of the article is that UoF has had an agreement in place with all employees saying that they must get approval in order to serve as an expert witness to begin with.

Government institutions are limited in how they can restrict the speech of their employees because of the first amendment. This is a safety net to prevent the government from consolidating power by putting their thumb on the scale of public discourse.

Re: University of Florida bars professors from testifying in a voting rights case

#433

Post by [deleted] »

Consultant32452 wrote: post #405
davorak wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I believe you interpreted NPR's article exactly the way NPR intended you to interpret it. That is to say, you were supposed to read it and walk away misinformed due to the framing. What you quoted "It is important to note that the university did not deny the First Amendment rights or academic freedom of professors..." comes from University of Florida and as far as I can tell is not an airtight argument. No valid co…

“You can work here and say things that will harm us, but you can’t accept payment to say things that will harm us.” Feels like a very reasonable position to me.

[deleted]

Re: University of Florida bars professors from testifying in a voting rights case

#434

Post by OrvalWintermute »

zackmorris wrote: post #172

Probably what's going on is that someone on the board of trusties gets money from the political establishment in Florida and is worried that they'll lose it if the voting barriers are fixed and different leadership is elected. This has similarities with the shenanigans pulled by Sinema and Manchin around the Build Back Better plan. Political horse trading to advance the agendas of special interests, at great expense…

> Probably what's going on is that someone on the board of trusties gets money from the political establishment in Florida and is worried that they'll lose it if the voting barriers are fixed and different leadership is elected.

That sounds like an overly biased, rosy fantasy.

Many of us that do not have an R or a D near our names are concerned about how easy it is to cheat the system with ballot harvesting, mail-in ballots, or, at will manipulation of voting laws by secretaries of state rather than legislative bodies, as the Constitution says.

https://ballotpedia.org/Absentee/mail-in_ballot_vote_fraud

Re: University of Florida bars professors from testifying in a voting rights case

#435

Post by OrvalWintermute »

hodgesrm wrote: post #250
president wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious question, does anyone have any insight into how we got into this mess? It seems like the past few years has seen a whirlwind of anti-democratic rule at almost every level of government - state, local, and federal.

Well, to begin with, the the United States has never been completely democratic even at the best of times. If you run the clock back 50 years+ full rights were denied to many minorities. This was not microaggressions. It was full out refusal to treat people equally based on race. For example, my first grade class in Alexandria, Virginia was in a segregated school. It was appropriately named Robert E Lee Elementary. A…

> If you run the clock back 50 years+ full rights were denied to many minorities.

Are you sure on your math?

That is 1971 btw.

Re: University of Florida bars professors from testifying in a voting rights case

#436

Post by davorak »

ameister14 wrote: post #184
ceejayoz wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're being forbidden by the university to testify. How can testifying be one of their official duties?

I think that they're being forbidden by the university from testifying as expert witnesses using their capacities as professors of the university. I could be wrong but it looks like they can testify as citizens, but not paid experts.

> I could be wrong but it looks like they can testify as citizens, but not paid experts.

Everything I have read from the University and the professors so far indicates they are being denied under any circumstance. Including doing it pro bono at least according to one of the professors: https://twitter.com/ElectProject/status/1454526638578880516 it is being denied by Gray Wimsett, Assistant Vice President of Conflicts of Interest.

Re: University of Florida bars professors from testifying in a voting rights case

#437

Post by OrvalWintermute »

CalChris wrote: post #359
scohesc wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what I don't understand. Why can't legislators be proactive when it comes to protecting voting rights? We don't need to see any evidence of fraud to ensure the safety of voting rights.

No, the State of Florida isn't protecting voting rights , your words. It is attacking voting rights. For example, Florida passed Amendment 4 in 2018 which returned the voting rights of most felons after they'd served their sentences. This amendment restores the voting rights of Floridians with felony convictions after they complete all terms of their sentence including parole or probation. The amendment would not app…

I think you are making biased comments.

There are good arguments both for, and against tightening, or loosening up a number of processes around voting.

Currently in the US, most voting processes are significantly weaker than processes around getting a driver's license, purchasing alcohol, or buying a gun. This encourages participation at the cost of security.

On the other hand, having to be at a certain place in a specific time window, or having to produce a strong identity can reduce voting participation to a minor extent. If this was altered such as by mass mail-in voting then this would reduce security at a benefit of accessibility.

Part of the penalties for a conviction can be paying a fine to your victims or to the state. A logical example of your argument would be that you'd permit Bernie Madoff to vote after his release (provided he lived) regardless of whether or not he fully compensated the numerous victims of his financial crimes.

Re: University of Florida bars professors from testifying in a voting rights case

#438

Post by OrvalWintermute »

random314 wrote: post #261
rayiner wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. It's tit-for-tat. Moderate Democrats won't push back against the "community organizers" when they push highly questionable practices such as ballot harvesting or allowing ballots to be counted that arrive days after election day. Moderate Democrats also never pushed back on two decades of claims about election fraud and stolen elections from the likes of people like Terry McAuliffe and Stacey Abrams: https:/…

Ultimately, it is almost always the fault of Democrats- whether it is fake electoral fraud allegations, gerrymandering and voter disenfranchisement. Stacey Abrams and fauci are the true villains here. /s Btw, electoral fraud via voter disenfranchisement is a well established reality. Voter disenfranchisement has been a Republican tactic for decades that Democrats are finally fighting against. Yes, this is fraud - whi…

Your partisan colors are showing.

Strong election processes and voting processes can go both ways.

Re: University of Florida bars professors from testifying in a voting rights case

#439

Post by davorak »

ModernMech wrote: post #354
davidrupp wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.gainesville.com/story/news/education/campus/2021... "Hessy Fernandez, UF director of issues management and crisis communications, told the Gainesville Sun in a text message Sunday the university views the professors' request to do outside work for the plaintiffs in the lawsuit as harmful to the university's interests. "However, to be clear," she stated, "if the professors wish to do so pro bono on their o…

The thing missing here is that they also wouldn’t be allowed to use their credentials as faculty members of the University, which makes their testimony less desirable.

> they also wouldn’t be allowed to use their credentials as faculty members of the University

Everything I have read from the University and the Professors indicates they are being flat out denied under the implicit risk of loosing their job. There is no circumstance where they can testify and not risk loosing their job from what I can tell.

Re: University of Florida bars professors from testifying in a voting rights case

#440

Post by OrvalWintermute »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #192
mcherm wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> First past the post results in a two party system. Nobody can gerrymander that away. Really? Consider the Democratic party lock on the US southern states for roughly 50 years after reconstruction.[1] A huge portion of the population wasn't permitted to vote (despite laws on the books being racially blind, most blacks were prevented from voting in many of these states up until the passage of the Voting Rights Act. A…

> Consider the Democratic party lock on the US southern states for roughly 50 years after reconstruction. Yet each party still controlled the government around half of the time, because the Republicans took the North. Each party will change the amount necessary to flip the marginal district. The districts in the South were harder for Republicans to flip than some others, so they took ones it was easier for them to ge…

> Yet each party still controlled the government around half of the time, because the Republicans took the North.

That is not correct.

Counting the House, the Senate, and the Presidency individually:

Republicans had control of 52 time periods, compared to the Democrats 23.

Based on a starting point & ending of the following:

44th (1875–1877)

45th (1877–1879)

46th (1879–1881)

47th (1881–1883)

48th (1883–1885)

49th (1885–1887)

50th (1887–1889)

51st (1889–1891)

52nd (1891–1893)

53rd (1893–1895)

54th (1895–1897)

55th (1897–1899)

56th (1899–1901)

57th (1901–1903)

58th (1903–1905)

59th (1905–1907)

60th (1907–1909)

61st (1909–1911)

62nd (1911–1913)

63rd (1913–1915)

64th (1915–1917)

65th (1917–1919)

66th (1919–1921)

67th (1921–1923)

68th (1923–1925)

69th (1925–1927)

Post reply on HN