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University of Florida bars professors from testifying in a voting rights case

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Re: University of Florida bars professors from testifying in a voting rights case

#281

Post by lotsofpulp »

deepsun wrote: post #209
lotsofpulp wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am deducing it based on the fact that if one person is threatening someone by talking to them in person with no one else around, then he said she said accusations will not be sufficient to convict one of witness tampering in a criminal trial.

But how then verbal intimidation was proven in an age before audio-recording?

Was it? It is pretty well known that one of the main obstacles for populations such as poorer people, women, minorities, or anyone else in a position position where someone has power over them that they can be coerced into questionable activities and they have no recourse because there is no proof.

Re: University of Florida bars professors from testifying in a voting rights case

#282

Post by brazzledazzle »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #270

"Three University of Florida professors were denied permission from the school to testify in a major voting rights case " What the fuck is 'permission to testify'? I thought access to justice was a constitutional right. If you can't get anyone to tesrify, then you have no access to justice. We have surrendered so many rights in various contracts, we hardly have any freedoms left.

I find it fascinating that the supreme court has upheld the ability to forgo so many purportedly inalienable rights via contract.

Re: University of Florida bars professors from testifying in a voting rights case

#283

Post by [deleted] »

Consultant32452 wrote: post #166
ajay-b wrote: post #138

That’s… Wow, since when can someone bar someone else from testifying in court? I thought it was the pursuit of truth?

This is not an endorsement, but a clarification. They're allowed to testify in court. They are just not allowed to get paid to do it, nor are they allowed to use their affiliation with the university as credentials when testifying because they are not speaking for the university.

[deleted]

Re: University of Florida bars professors from testifying in a voting rights case

#284

Post by boomboomsubban »

supperburg wrote: post #226
jeffbee wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking as a person confident that I could point out Argentina on a map, why is geographic trivia a very important topic? I'd rather have a population with a good understanding of means and medians, thermodynamics, and the relationship between rates and accumulations, than one that can readily tell me the year that William the Conqueror invaded England.

I agree but the point is that knowledge of the countries of the world is the most basic sign of education besides reading. The average 18 year old knows even less about science than geography. But geography is important because not knowing it is extremely embarrassing.

Knowledge about other countries is useful, geography less so. It would be just as embarrassing to have a conversation with an Argentinian and say "so what's it like living near Chile?"

Re: University of Florida bars professors from testifying in a voting rights case

#285

Post by earleybird »

lemoncookiechip wrote: post #124
smnrchrds wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even then, they will end up not firing the employee then and there, and instead find an excuse to fire them a couple of months later.

Or make his work-life a living hell so he quits himself.

Which has a name: constructive dismissal

Re: University of Florida bars professors from testifying in a voting rights case

#286

Post by xenophonf »

jeffbee wrote: post #210
supperburg wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pick a random 18 year old and see if they can point to the country of Argentina on a map. The populace can read but not much else.

Speaking as a person confident that I could point out Argentina on a map, why is geographic trivia a very important topic? I'd rather have a population with a good understanding of means and medians, thermodynamics, and the relationship between rates and accumulations, than one that can readily tell me the year that William the Conqueror invaded England.

Because literacy and numeracy are necessary but not sufficient for an educated polity. A good understanding of society, of history, of philosophy, and more all factor in. As do good critical thinking skills.

Re: University of Florida bars professors from testifying in a voting rights case

#287

Post by djoldman »

For the lawyers:

Can't a lawyer wishing to have these professors testify as expert witnesses merely motion for them to be subpoenaed?

As far as I know, then by law the expert witnesses must testify else risk contempt of court, thereby negating whatever "bar" that the university seems fit to impose.

Re: University of Florida bars professors from testifying in a voting rights case

#288

Post by ClumsyPilot »

endisneigh wrote: post #16

this doesn't sound like a big deal. UF is saying that professors cannot both receive compensation for your testimony and testify as a member of the university. in other words, they can testify for free, or they cannot use their the fact that they're UF professors as part of their credentials without prior approval, or do anything that's a "conflict of interest" as defined by UF themselves. the article itself admits t…

"nothing is stopping you from quitting and testifying anyway"

We gave up privacy of our most intimate files and communication 'to prevent crime', because apparently everyone of us is a potential pedophile.

Joe should also give up his lifehood so that rule of law can function?

God forbid an organisation would suffer the indignity of employees giving evidence in the court of law and having to answer some tough questions?

Re: University of Florida bars professors from testifying in a voting rights case

#289

Post by tptacek »

rayiner wrote: post #253
RickJWagner wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMHO, it's been an escalation of tit-for-tat from both sides of the aisle. News sources, 'Community organizers', corporate activists, religious leaders etc. have all been increasingly brazen as they take increasingly polarized positions to counter actions from the other side. What's missing is common decency and sympathy for the other person's point of view. We won't find it by clinging to our own political party or…

Exactly. It's tit-for-tat. Moderate Democrats won't push back against the "community organizers" when they push highly questionable practices such as ballot harvesting or allowing ballots to be counted that arrive days after election day. Moderate Democrats also never pushed back on two decades of claims about election fraud and stolen elections from the likes of people like Terry McAuliffe and Stacey Abrams: https:/…

The last major story about ballot harvesting was a conviction for a Republican operative doing it in North Carolina.

Re: University of Florida bars professors from testifying in a voting rights case

#290

Post by lotsofpulp »

zsmi wrote: post #245
deepsun wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But how then verbal intimidation was proven in an age before audio-recording?

My guess is recording laws probably grew from eavesdropping laws so perhaps in some situations you could setup an eavesdropper to serve as a collaborating witness. Or they could've attempted to intimidate you while you were in a crowd. Otherwise it would be on reputation alone, just like now.

There is no reason to require all party consent to record a conversation unless you want people in power to have even more power over others.
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