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First confirmed hatchings of two California condor chicks from unfertilized eggs

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Re: First confirmed hatchings of two California condor chicks from unfertilized eggs

#51

Post by voz_ »

I was reading the wikipedia article, and this line "Use of an electrical or chemical stimulus can produce the beginning of the process of parthenogenesis in the asexual development of viable offspring.[97]"

Really stood out to me. It seems like there are stimuli that can trigger this process (either naturally or induced).

I wonder if learning about those pathways/approaches/(APIs?) can unlock manual triggering of other behaviors (like telling an Immune system to calm down during allergies / cytokine storm, or spurring or stopping growth of certain cells...)

Re: First confirmed hatchings of two California condor chicks from unfertilized eggs

#52

Post by rsynnott »

inside65 wrote: post #32

Many would argue this already occurred with Jesus, born from the virgin Mary.

I mean, I'm not sure that _many_ would argue that. Most people would either take the view that Jesus had a human father, or that a miracle was involved. If nothing else, if he'd come about by this pathway, he'd be XX, which you'd think would have merited a mention in the Bible.

(It isn't totally unknown for XX people to be phenotypically male, and it'd fit with him having no kids, but really this seems like a needlessly complicated backstory for Jesus.)

Re: First confirmed hatchings of two California condor chicks from unfertilized eggs

#53

Post by dnautics »

jaqalopes wrote: post #13

Apologies for the low-effort comment, but this really freaks me out. I had no idea birds could reproduce asexually! That's crazy! Feels like an unanswerable question, but: could we ever see something like this in mammals? A virgin birth, for lack of a better phrase?

> could we ever

"ever" is pretty open-ended. In principle, it's possible.

The most obvious problem is that if the maternal genes include any that are homozygous lethal or homozygous impaired, the embryo is also a no-go. This is in principle fixable using genetic editing using known techniques.

The more subtle biggest obstacles that I can think of of the top of my head is DNA methylation-related defects. If you are interested in a "quick soundbite example" of why this is important, I recommend reading https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prader%E2%80%93Willi_syndrome (note the 25% of cases when this is what happens when there are by bad luck two maternal copies - and zero paternal copies - of ONE chromosome, similarly Angelman's syndrome); all chromosomes -- or any other chromosome, it appears -- is embryonic lethal in humans.

The underlying mechanism is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genomic_imprinting

There is not any known way to effectively edit DNA methylation. It doesn't take star-trek level phlebotonium to get there (it's physically possible, just not with current levels of tech).

Re: First confirmed hatchings of two California condor chicks from unfertilized eggs

#54

Post by darkwizard42 »

DocFeind wrote: post #44

I can't explain how stoked I am about this, I was in SanDiego when they were on the verge of extinction, even got the chance to go behind the scenes for the original breeding program. Knowing nature refuses to let them fade away even without our intervention is epicly awesome news.

If you have a chance, check out the breeding program at The Peregrine Fund near Boise, ID. We were able to stop there on a road trip and it was really remarkable how many breeding pairs they have. As a fan of birds of prey they also have several eagle and hawk varieties and breed a significant number of Peregrine falcons as well!

https://www.peregrinefund.org/visit

Re: First confirmed hatchings of two California condor chicks from unfertilized eggs

#55

Post by yupper32 »

mistrial9 wrote: post #41
simiones wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most Christians believe that that was not some biological process, but a true miracle where God himself bestowed this child on Mary. It would be technically correct that this was parthenogenesis, but it is a completely different... mechanism. Most non-Christians, even if they believe Jesus was a true historical figure, do not believe that his mother was a virgin.

this is complicated, nuanced and not literal; it is a typical thing for critics to latch on to, so let's be wise-cautious with the exposition here at YNews, please

Miracles are absolutely (supposed to be) literal. It's a requirement for Sainthood, for example.

Re: First confirmed hatchings of two California condor chicks from unfertilized eggs

#56

Post by wil421 »

simiones wrote: post #25
irrational wrote: post #15

Hmm, all birds are dinosaurs. It’s been a long time since I last saw Jurassic Park, but wasn’t something like this a plot line in the film?

The plotline there, as far as I remember, was that bullfrog DNA meant that some female dinosaurs could actually morph to become male and reproduce with the females (this is something that happens in some fish, amphibians, and even reptiles, where sex is not genetically determined).

Grouper are all born females but they have both male/female organs at birth. The largest females will turn into males.

Re: First confirmed hatchings of two California condor chicks from unfertilized eggs

#57

Post by rsynnott »

fijiaarone wrote: post #12

There's a perfectly logical, very probable, quite natural explanation, but the "researchers" claiming that their impossible, ridiculous, unfounded explanation can't possibly be wrong because..."muh politics"

I assume your logical probable natural explanation is that another male condor visited? This probably isn't as logical or probable as you think; they're critically endangered and all known examples would be DNA sequenced. Parthenogenesis is known to happen occasionally in birds, so it doesn't really seem all that out-there.

> impossible, ridiculous, unfounded explanation

... What makes you think it's any of these?

> can't possibly be wrong because..."muh politics"

I may just be out of date, but I hadn't realised that the reproductive habits of condors had been particularly politicised.

Re: First confirmed hatchings of two California condor chicks from unfertilized eggs

#58

Post by penneyd »

DocFeind wrote: post #44

I can't explain how stoked I am about this, I was in SanDiego when they were on the verge of extinction, even got the chance to go behind the scenes for the original breeding program. Knowing nature refuses to let them fade away even without our intervention is epicly awesome news.

Unfortunately both of the condors did have some documented health issues. SB260, a male hatched at the San Diego Zoo Safari Park in 2001, died two years later after being released into the wild—he was always small and did not integrate well with the wild birds. SB517, a male hatched at Los Angeles Zoo in 2009, had a curved spine and trouble walking. He was never released into the wild and died in captivity at about age eight.

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/10/californ...

Re: First confirmed hatchings of two California condor chicks from unfertilized eggs

#59

Post by penneyd »

This article has a bit more detail and describes the health issues these birds experienced

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/10/californ...

"both of the condors did have some documented health issues. SB260, a male hatched at the San Diego Zoo Safari Park in 2001, died two years later after being released into the wild—he was always small and did not integrate well with the wild birds. SB517, a male hatched at Los Angeles Zoo in 2009, had a curved spine and trouble walking. He was never released into the wild and died in captivity at about age eight."

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