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Man left shocked as his house is 'stolen'

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Man left shocked as his house is 'stolen'

#21

Post by aclelland »

Androider wrote: post #15

> Once the house was sold to the new owner for £131,000 by the person impersonating Mr Hall, they legally owned it. That's nuts. Why isn't it the case that the person who failed to properly vet the seller is out of £131,000 and the house? So I can "buy" a local mansion and then say "oops, I didn't know this random guy didn't own it. Oh well."

Yeah, that part confused me to. I'm pretty sure that if I bought a stolen xbox from some guy on a street corner and the Police find me with it, they'd not throw up their hands and say "oh well, I guess you own it now, on your way".

I assume there is a specific legal quirk with property ownership.

Re: Man left shocked as his house is 'stolen'

#22

Post by [deleted] »

marcus_holmes wrote: post #17
lbriner wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like the fraudster got a copy of the real person's driving licence, although he must have looked the real person presumably. A Solicitor has to due the legal due-diligence to make sure they have the right to sell including usually ownership of the title deeds but if you don't have the title deeds and they are held by the Land Registry in name only, this is fairly easy to get around. I smell an insurance cla…

though presumably in "these trying times" the entire transaction was done remotely and so the proof of ID was images/photos/scans rather than seeing the originals - a lot easier to forge and alter

[deleted]

Re: Man left shocked as his house is 'stolen'

#23

Post by Maxburn »

quietbritishjim wrote: post #12
klyrs wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure the police would do anything different in the US. I'm guessing that proper owner, like most people, kept the deed in his house -- which was emptied of his belongings and sold. Without that, the police don't have much to act on.

Paper deeds are no longer relevant to property ownership in the UK. The HM Land Registry records are authoritative (subject to legal challenges). See for example: https://hmlandregistry.blog.gov.uk/2018/02/19/title-deeds/ Edit: technically they are still relevant if the property has not been sold since the records were digitised in the 1990s

In the US I believe your Title Insurance would give you a suitable paper trail as well. That and the registrar.

Re: Man left shocked as his house is 'stolen'

#24

Post by dmoy »

Androider wrote: post #15

> Once the house was sold to the new owner for £131,000 by the person impersonating Mr Hall, they legally owned it. That's nuts. Why isn't it the case that the person who failed to properly vet the seller is out of £131,000 and the house? So I can "buy" a local mansion and then say "oops, I didn't know this random guy didn't own it. Oh well."

It depends on how Title law works in the jurisdiction.

I don't know how it works in this part of the UK, but in many states in the US, the buyer would left holding the bag - the original homeowner would keep the property.

It's one reason in the US that most property sales include a purchase of title insurance.

Re: Man left shocked as his house is 'stolen'

#25

Post by implements »

Any UK reader can avoid this by signing up to:

https://propertyalert.landregistry.gov.uk/

It’s the Land Registry itself, it’s free, and: “Once you have signed up to the service, you will receive email alerts when certain activity occurs on your monitored properties, allowing you to take action if necessary.”

Re: Man left shocked as his house is 'stolen'

#26

Post by spzb »

cameronh90 wrote: post #11
freeqaz wrote: post #2

Is it roughly the same to "prove" your identity in the US as it is in the UK? In the US, at least for most credit checks, you just need your SSN, some public record data about where you've lived, and personal data (name, DOB, etc). It's largely because there is no "National ID" system in the US (due to political reasons). That makes it hard for companies to track people, and the SSN is the only number that people con…

Currently buying a house in the UK and it involved rather a lot of ID verification. I had to provide, to the bank, estate agent, mortgage broker and lawyers, the following: passport, driving license, utility bills, payslips, source of funds, bank statements, app-based liveness verification and more. However, in the event of an off-market cash transaction, a lot fewer parties are involved - potentially just a conveyan…

Same here. We completed over the summer and even had to provide our marriage certificate to the bank (no idea why, are single people not allowed mortgages?). Sounds very much like the conveyancers (lawyers) screwed up massively. There still some bits of this story I don't understand. Like, how did the fraudster get access to the house in the first place? Did he break in then fix the damage and replace the locks so he had a set of keys to give to the "buyer"?

Re: Man left shocked as his house is 'stolen'

#27

Post by WarOnPrivacy »

klyrs wrote: post #7
WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #5

I'm in the US. What I see is that stolen+sold property tends to belong to the original owner, not the purchaser. Is it different in the UK?

I'm not sure the police would do anything different in the US. I'm guessing that proper owner, like most people, kept the deed in his house -- which was emptied of his belongings and sold. Without that, the police don't have much to act on.

In my state, original deeds are filed with the property appraiser's office. I suspect this is the case for all states but I do not know.

Our PAO gives a receipt at filing. Copies are available after the deed is processed. In my state, they're public record; in my county, they're available online.

source: worked for real estate attorney

Re: Man left shocked as his house is 'stolen'

#28

Post by op00to »

implements wrote: post #25

Any UK reader can avoid this by signing up to: https://propertyalert.landregistry.gov.uk/ It’s the Land Registry itself, it’s free, and: “Once you have signed up to the service, you will receive email alerts when certain activity occurs on your monitored properties, allowing you to take action if necessary.”

This is the same bs we have to deal with in the US with financial credit and social security numbers. Because there’s no actual security, the individual must monitor their own credit for abuses, or prevent anyone from accessing it via a freeze.

Re: Man left shocked as his house is 'stolen'

#29

Post by op00to »

klyrs wrote: post #7
WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #5

I'm in the US. What I see is that stolen+sold property tends to belong to the original owner, not the purchaser. Is it different in the UK?

I'm not sure the police would do anything different in the US. I'm guessing that proper owner, like most people, kept the deed in his house -- which was emptied of his belongings and sold. Without that, the police don't have much to act on.

Who keeps their deed in the house? When I bought my first house, my realtor basically steered us right into a bank to open a safe deposit box.

Re: Man left shocked as his house is 'stolen'

#30

Post by dtparr »

aclelland wrote: post #21
Androider wrote: post #15

> Once the house was sold to the new owner for £131,000 by the person impersonating Mr Hall, they legally owned it. That's nuts. Why isn't it the case that the person who failed to properly vet the seller is out of £131,000 and the house? So I can "buy" a local mansion and then say "oops, I didn't know this random guy didn't own it. Oh well."

Yeah, that part confused me to. I'm pretty sure that if I bought a stolen xbox from some guy on a street corner and the Police find me with it, they'd not throw up their hands and say "oh well, I guess you own it now, on your way". I assume there is a specific legal quirk with property ownership.

I believe the 'quirk' here is that the fraud was able to get property ownership updated with the Land Registry, so the new owner is the official owner of record.
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