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University of Florida bars professors from testifying in a voting rights case

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Re: University of Florida bars professors from testifying in a voting rights case

#121

Post by duxup »

orangepurple wrote: post #91
chmod600 wrote: post #42

If schools have become as much political institutions as educational institutions -- and there's little doubt about that -- why do they get public money at all? The real conflict of interest here is politicians spending your money for their political goals.

The short answer is that the University of Florida, and American Universities in general, are not accountable to YOU OR ME, but rather a handful of bureaucrats in the federal government, and in this case specifically the NIH, which air drops the most cash on the institution. Funding for NIH comes primarily from annual Labor, HHS, and Education (LHHS) Appropriations Acts, with an additional smaller amount for the Supe…

Are they really accountable to those folks in the sense that they're running the universities / telling people they can't testify like this law?

I think there is a big difference.

Re: University of Florida bars professors from testifying in a voting rights case

#122

Post by the_snooze »

runako wrote: post #83
the_snooze wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When it comes to voter ID, the devil is in the details. I'm a poll worker in Virginia and think our ID laws are pretty fair. We accept driver's licenses and passports, sure, but we also take employer photo ID, any current Virginia school ID, and even old Virginia driver's licenses up to a year after expiration. If a state gives affordances like these to make it easy for people to fulfill the ID requirement, I don't s…

The problem is not at the point of acceptance, it's at the point of issuance. An egregious violator is Alabama, which systematically closed DMVs in Black counties [1]. The point of modern voting suppression is it's designed such that each hurdle on its own looks reasonable to people new to the issue. But the aggregate is intended to suppress voters in a targeted way. The architects of these programs even publicly say…

I don't think we're disagreeing here. I did say the devil is in the details. I'm putting forth Virginia as a state that does it well (i.e., there are multiple independent sources of valid ID, so we can't pull Alabama-like DMV shenanigans), and pointing out that voter ID has value in ways not often discussed, particularly in making the voter check-in process go more smoothly.

There are interesting trade-offs to consider in the voter ID discussion.

Re: University of Florida bars professors from testifying in a voting rights case

#123

Post by nradov »

ModernMech wrote: post #37
elliekelly wrote: post #10

I have a colleague who does environmental litigation. (Think Erin Brockovich.) They have a big civil case against a large energy company in a southern, “energy-friendly” state. They had an expert witness all lined up - a professor at the (public!) state university. Well this expert happened to be up for tenure and was (allegedly) told in no uncertain terms that, should they testify as an expert witness in this case,…

As a professor, I think the actions of The University of Florida are abhorrent. I would never want to work in an environment that kowtows to politics. There are enough political considerations within a University, but having to deal with state politics as well? Count me out. At the same time, he doesn’t have tenure? So they are actually fully within their rights to do this, and really no one should be surprised. But…

This is a civil case. There are no prosecutors.

Re: University of Florida bars professors from testifying in a voting rights case

#124

Post by lemoncookiechip »

smnrchrds wrote: post #88
lotsofpulp wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cannot prove it unless the victim was in a state that allows one party consent audio recording and was recording audio. Although Florida is the only southern state that requires all party consent for recording audio, and I presume the previous poster was talking about Texas. Smartphones have solved the recording audio problem, so presumably it would have been possible.

Even then, they will end up not firing the employee then and there, and instead find an excuse to fire them a couple of months later.

Or make his work-life a living hell so he quits himself.

Re: University of Florida bars professors from testifying in a voting rights case

#126

Post by ceejayoz »

singlow wrote: post #107
ceejayoz wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/getting-a... > For Settles to get one of those, his name has to match his birth certificate — and it doesn’t. In 1964, when he was 14, his mother married and changed his last name. After Texas passed a new voter-ID law, officials told Settles he had to show them his name-change certificate from 1964 to qualify for a new identification card to vote. > So with the help…

Can he not vote using the name the State does recognize?

The article is pretty clear on that point.

> What he does not have is the one thing that he needs to vote this presidential election: a current Texas photo ID.

He can't get one without the proper documents, which he can't obtain.

Texas's list of requirements is at https://www.dps.texas.gov/internetforms/Forms/DL-15.pdf; he'll need proof of residence, which is likely all under the name he's been using for half a century.

Re: University of Florida bars professors from testifying in a voting rights case

#127

Post by jrm4 »

ModernMech wrote: post #37
elliekelly wrote: post #10

I have a colleague who does environmental litigation. (Think Erin Brockovich.) They have a big civil case against a large energy company in a southern, “energy-friendly” state. They had an expert witness all lined up - a professor at the (public!) state university. Well this expert happened to be up for tenure and was (allegedly) told in no uncertain terms that, should they testify as an expert witness in this case,…

As a professor, I think the actions of The University of Florida are abhorrent. I would never want to work in an environment that kowtows to politics. There are enough political considerations within a University, but having to deal with state politics as well? Count me out. At the same time, he doesn’t have tenure? So they are actually fully within their rights to do this, and really no one should be surprised. But…

They are fully within their rights to do this AND LITERALLY EVERYONE SHOULD BE VERY SURPRISED.

Re: University of Florida bars professors from testifying in a voting rights case

#128

Post by educaysean »

ceejayoz wrote: post #72
chmod600 wrote: post #42

If schools have become as much political institutions as educational institutions -- and there's little doubt about that -- why do they get public money at all? The real conflict of interest here is politicians spending your money for their political goals.

> why do they get public money at all? Because we still believe there to be a societal benefit to an educated populace.

Don't speak for the rest of us please. I personally believe there to be a massive societal disadvantage to the existence of "educational institutions" with hidden political agendas.

Re: University of Florida bars professors from testifying in a voting rights case

#129

Post by notreallyserio »

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #53
notreallyserio wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s a real risk that voter ID laws could bar more legitimate voters than illegitimate. If you feel there were, say, 1000 fraudulent votes but that voter ID legislation would prevent 10000 legitimate votes, would that be an acceptable trade off? I say no. And from what I have read in the past the ratio is far worse.

>would that be an acceptable trade off? Depends on the margins of victory perception of the fraud among the other voters. If people widely consider the elections to be illegitimate high participation doesn't do anything to solve that.

People that believe that are substituting feelings for evidence, so passing laws to assuage their concerns doesn’t make sense. That’d be like requiring drug testing for people to get public assistance, but worse because voting is so fundamental.

Re: University of Florida bars professors from testifying in a voting rights case

#130

Post by hereme888 »

mercy_dude wrote: post #95

Good news is and many in the academic sphere may not realize this - many faculties universities are going to go out of business at this rate. One silver lining during this time has been, many have realized how much they are overpaying for things they can learn online or through their own efforts. There is no reason you need to spend 200k+ for a degree in Sociology and Gender Studies. Other than medicine, law a few sc…

Even medicine is an inefficient system of schooling in the US (and very hypocritical if you consider what med students and residents go through and its impact on their health). It can be redone to be cheaper, quicker, and safer, with less burnout rates.
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