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Ask HN: Is it unprofessional to leave a new job where everything is a mess?

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Re: Ask HN: Is it unprofessional to leave a new job where everything is a mess?

#211

Post by atlasunshrugged »

MadeThisToReply wrote: post #70
atlasunshrugged wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, when I first got to Germany I was surprised at this but after doing it once I loved it. As an employee I had no hard feelings about just saying something wasn't a good fit within a few months of joining (I have a slightly different but similar in practice setup with a French co currently that I'm leaving after a 3m trial period). I think that it's a good way to do things & I think I reflect the consensus view he…

You two are discussing this as if it's specific to Germany... is it really that rare? Every tech job I've ever had in the UK (admittedly not a huge sample size) has had some kind of probationary period baked into the contract, although the exact details vary (e.g. number of months considered probation, notice period while on probation.) Are there countries where this isn't a thing?

I think it's common across Europe (was the same with my Estonian and now French contract) but wasn't in the US because it's "at will" hiring in most states where they can fire you anytime... so why have a contract?

Re: Ask HN: Is it unprofessional to leave a new job where everything is a mess?

#213

Post by xyzelement »

qaq wrote: post #208
xyzelement wrote: post #184

This sounds like a great opportunity to level up and learn some rare lessons. It's easy to see problems and its easy to complain about them - but even if you're right, there's a vast gulf between complaining and driving change. You may be discouraged because you're hitting resistance but that's the nature of these things - if the organization already was ripe for and acting to fix these things, there'd be no need for…

The above holds if you have serious equity stake otherwise it's an opportunity to burn out without much upside.

The upside is to become a person who has done that kind of thing.

That gets you paid about 5x of someone who can just operate in an environment that's good to begin with.

Re: Ask HN: Is it unprofessional to leave a new job where everything is a mess?

#215

Post by throwaway0a5e »

input_sh wrote: post #45
throwaway0a5e wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presumably his paychecks aren't bouncing.

They've mentioned Europe. We don't do paychecks here. Money just lands on your bank account.

The point is he's getting paid and is free to quit, it's not slave labor.

Re: Ask HN: Is it unprofessional to leave a new job where everything is a mess?

#217

Post by ballenf »

rjzzleep wrote: post #84
rkangel wrote: post #56

6 months is a perfectly reasonable amount of time to judge a job and leave it. The important thing is to be able to defend it in future interviews, and do so in a reasoned way rather than an emotional one. For example instead of "the team were incredibly frustrating to work with and ignored all my suggestions", instead "the culture made it very hard to do quality engineering, which over time was demoralising". Sweepi…

While they do come across as petty in our societies it's downright employee hostile. Why do organizations have so much power on the future of someones work? So many organizations do legally questionable things and mouth gag you from doing the right thing and reporting their scammy behaviour because somewhere down the line you want to make sure that when the next organization calls for a reference they don't destroy y…

You're talking about a niche within a niche employment-wise. I've worked dozens of jobs with great pay and benefits and I've never signed a single NDA. When I hear people sounding trapped like you, it makes me want to tell them about this amazing world outside VC-land Bay Area insanity.

Re: Ask HN: Is it unprofessional to leave a new job where everything is a mess?

#218

Post by notahacker »

akudha wrote: post #162
itamarst wrote: post #54

A company I worked for once interviewed someone who had just started at a different company. We asked why he was leaving so soon, he explained he had some differences of opinion and that it wasn't going to work out well. He seemed great, we hired him, he was indeed great. After we'd hired him, we asked about the old company again. "Oh, it was an utter shitshow" and he went on a long and very compelling rant about how…

I dunno, unless some criminal stuff is involved, I feel like it is not the business of an employer to probe why a candidate left their previous job in six months. Maybe it is a red flag if their entire resume is filled with 6 month stints, if it is just one job, why bother? Also, the candidate can say something like "the contract ended" or something generic. What is the point of talking about the shortcomings of thei…

It's literally the only thing people are likely to put on their CV that's a possible indicator the person in question might not actually be a good fit for certain positions. Of course it's their business to ask.

There are perfectly good answers (which can include "it was a six month contract", although that stuff can be checked...) and there are even answers with the right amount of objectivity/detail which give the impression the reason why the employee left or wants to leave makes them a particularly good fit for this new job, but there's also a good chance the employee's answer raises red flags about their attitude/ability/expectations that they wouldn't give off in response to other questions.

Re: Ask HN: Is it unprofessional to leave a new job where everything is a mess?

#219

Post by ianai »

throwaway75787 wrote: post #151
ianai wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot can be said by just tone of voice without saying anything incriminating, for that matter.

"Let me check what I am allowed to say about Alice."

Or just the kind of tone like you’re giving them a wet tissue.

Re: Ask HN: Is it unprofessional to leave a new job where everything is a mess?

#220

Post by sidr »

whiddershins wrote: post #148
rkangel wrote: post #56

6 months is a perfectly reasonable amount of time to judge a job and leave it. The important thing is to be able to defend it in future interviews, and do so in a reasoned way rather than an emotional one. For example instead of "the team were incredibly frustrating to work with and ignored all my suggestions", instead "the culture made it very hard to do quality engineering, which over time was demoralising". Sweepi…

This … isn’t the advice I would give. I would personally never say negative things about a previous employer regardless of how carefully worded.

"Everything was going perfect. I loved my job and the people I worked with, I just left because I am prone to doing that when there are no issues whatsoever."
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