Earlier quoted context omitted.
But why is it important to optimise MW per km2? Seems like premature optimization of something that is not the bottleneck.
Because we have trouble finding spots where people don't already live and file complaints to prevent them being built near them? At least on-shore; off-shore is more expensive. If we can get more MW per km² then we can have more power with less trouble.
Sustainable Energy without the Hot Air (Revised, Community Edition)
121–130 of 138 posts
Re: Sustainable Energy without the Hot Air (Revised, Community Edition)
#122Earlier quoted context omitted.
There's more to it than that. The long-term plan for nuclear fission always has been and remains to use breeder reactors after we have ~1000 GW-scale non-breeder reactors in place. Because they can utilize the majority isotope of uranium (U-238) and Thorium rather than just the small natural amount of fissile U-235, breeders enable us to make 100% of the world's primary energy for about 4 billion years (e.g. roughly…
Which means that nuclear proponents should use the cost of breeder reactors with reprocessing, not burner reactors with a once-through fuel cycle, when calculating the cost of nuclear energy. This will likely increase the cost of energy from nuclear.
Re: Sustainable Energy without the Hot Air (Revised, Community Edition)
#123Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Of course interconnection is a big help, but transmission isn't "free" or unlimited, the flows between individual European countries is typically a small fraction (less than 10%) of the national consumption and generation. It’s more than a little help. Just imagine how a blackout involving 10% of the population or Germany would look like, never mind the EU. > And there are cases like Ireland which has its own grid…
In what way is it not a competition? We live in a world of finite resources. When considering the significant task of decarbonizing energy, there are lots of technologies potentially available. But some deliver more value than others. Unfortunately nuclear is not _currently_ one of the options which delivers value in this regard. Flamenville 3 - the newest French reactor will cost $22B to build 1.6GW of capacity and…
Nuclear is bottlenecked by the availability of properly trained engineers (and you really need those for such projects). The need in resources would not impact installations of either wind turbines or solar panels.
Nuclear+renewables is not more expensive than all renewables, particularly if you consider the fact that at the moment renewables benefit from an industry that is entirely dependent on subsidised fuel. And that nuclear reactors would be much cheaper per unit if we stopped building only a couple of each class. Also, a nuclear power plant is expensive, but so is the equivalent capacity in wind turbines plus the required storage.
A nuclear baseline mitigates the issues of wind turbines, and wind turbines are a good complement to nuclear. Both are mostly mutually exclusive for political reasons.
> Flamenville 3 - the newest French reactor will cost $22B to build 1.6GW of capacity and will have taken nearly 20 years from the start of construction to deliver a watt. The same amount of money could deliver over 20GW of wind capacity which could be deployed almost instantly as it's an easily parallelizable low-risk, relatively low-tech engineering task relying on mass-production for most of the installation. None of these benefits are available to nuclear reactor construction. Even with a capacity factor of 40% for on-shore wind vs 90%+ for nuclear, nuclear just isn't close.
The same reactor was built on time and on budget in China, and is currently operating. Hinckley point is also going more or less as planned. Areva/Orano’s abysmal performance is more related to their mismanagement than the reactor itself. You also need to factor stuff like storage, and the fact that we have a limited shore length to use.
> I see is a long trail of massively delayed or abandoned projects with incredible cost-overruns (Flamanville, Olkiluoto, V.C. Summer, Vogtle, etc). These failures are hard-engineering failures, nothing to do with politics.
Olkiluoto and Flamanville are all the consequences of mismanagement coupled with politics. They re-designed Olkiluoto whilst it was being built to adapt it to changing regulations, it is obviously a recipe for disaster. Most of Flamanville delays are due to poor quality control and issues with contractors and suppliers, i.e., mismanagement.
The problem with nuclear is that it requires a high initial capital investment, this is not a secret. This is also why private companies are not suited for this: they don’t price national interest and reliability of the energy supply at the scale of a continent. Nuclear programmes that do account for this (like France in the 1970s/1980s and China today) are massively successful.
Look at it this way: no more fossil fuel means that you can divert a sliver of the money that’s being spent on the military to secure oil supply to large infrastructure projects. You could build nuclear power plants with the yearly increase of the US military budget. It is only a matter of strategy.
> Btw, it isn't just nuclear that loses in this regard; bio-fuels, domestic-solar PV, green hydrogen, etc. all fail to compete in the new world of ultra-cheap solar PV and wind.
Well, good riddance to bio-fuels (which cause soil degradation, deforestation and dangerous monocultures) and green hydrogen (which is just greenwashed fossil fuel at the moment and does not make much thermodynamical sense in most scenarios).
Super-cheap wind turbines won’t be super-cheap anymore if they are the only tool we have.
Re: Sustainable Energy without the Hot Air (Revised, Community Edition)
#124Earlier quoted context omitted.
There's more to it than that. The long-term plan for nuclear fission always has been and remains to use breeder reactors after we have ~1000 GW-scale non-breeder reactors in place. Because they can utilize the majority isotope of uranium (U-238) and Thorium rather than just the small natural amount of fissile U-235, breeders enable us to make 100% of the world's primary energy for about 4 billion years (e.g. roughly…
Which means that nuclear proponents should use the cost of breeder reactors with reprocessing, not burner reactors with a once-through fuel cycle, when calculating the cost of nuclear energy. This will likely increase the cost of energy from nuclear.
We need solutions that pay back as fast as possible, not stuff that will go neutral in 20 years.
Re: Sustainable Energy without the Hot Air (Revised, Community Edition)
#125Earlier quoted context omitted.
Which means that nuclear proponents should use the cost of breeder reactors with reprocessing, not burner reactors with a once-through fuel cycle, when calculating the cost of nuclear energy. This will likely increase the cost of energy from nuclear.
I don't really know about that. After we have 1000 GW scale lwrs the prices of reprocessing might be different than today's prices.
Re: Sustainable Energy without the Hot Air (Revised, Community Edition)
#126Earlier quoted context omitted.
It didn't seem to mention hybrids much either. It mentioned a polo bluemotion as the lowest co2 emitting vehicle at 99g/km, but even my 10+ year old hybrid clunker (Toyota auris) officially gets 82g/km - modern hybrids must be way better by now, and they are super common now rather than just Toyota's selling point. A recent report I read on the BBC suggests that public bus transportation is 90g/km/passenger so my anc…
Is that "official" figure from Toyota, or from an independent testing group? A huge number of manufacturers have been caught or admitted to, cheating on their emissions figures - including CO2 levels. Claimed figures are basically worthless. Why would you think that a compact hybrid would have only slightly better CO2 performance compared to a city bus per passenger ? It doesn't even make sense for the vehicle as a w…
tl;dr:
- single-deckers are ~900g/km,
- double-deckers are ~1300g/km
- hybrid are 675-780g/km
So anywhere between 800% to 1500% worse than a decade-old hybrid.
Of course, if the bus has 24 to 45 passengers on it, then it is better on a per-passenger basis than me in my car with my wife and kid. I couldn't find any rider-ship data from TfL, but they often appear kinda empty outside of rush hours.
Re: Sustainable Energy without the Hot Air (Revised, Community Edition)
#127Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yup. They should be easier to electrify, too. Mass produced electric passenger vans should be a thing. Considering transit vans are only like $50,000 apiece for 12 seats, they should be pretty dang cheap to acquire, too, compared to the $1 million 30 seat e-buses. Charging infrastructure should be the same as regular electric cars, too, which makes it cheaper and more flexible to deploy.
The biggest cost over the lifetime is still the driver. Passenger vans only place in transit is for wheelchairs.
Additionally, transit vans don't necessarily need a commercial license to drive, which can reduce labor costs (in part by expanding the availability of the labor pool).
Re: Sustainable Energy without the Hot Air (Revised, Community Edition)
#128Earlier quoted context omitted.
But why is it important to optimise MW per km2? Seems like premature optimization of something that is not the bottleneck.
The goal of the book is not to find quick wins in reducing CO2 output, the goal is to give a complete overview over what is necessary to achieve carbon neutrality. And MW/km2 might be a bottleneck if we're to replace all oil & gas with electric power. If you read the book you can actually see what percentage of the seas around the UK would have to be fully covered, to achieve carbon neutrality. If that number really…
Re: Sustainable Energy without the Hot Air (Revised, Community Edition)
#129Earlier quoted context omitted.
Only recently did PV becomes the least-cost source of new electric generation.[0] And new utility-scale projects take 2-7 years to develop. For example, TX is anticipated to add 10 GW of new solar generation in 2022.[1] As I write this (while the sun is up, noon in TX), the current demand in TX is 38 GW.[2] Source: Have been developing solar power plants since 2008. [0] The tipping point for solar is different in dif…
Hijacking your comment to say that the fine print in the EIA chart cited by the person you're replying to says they're only accounting for new and utility scale generation. Utility installs dwarf residential, but if you add all non-utility generation it's quite a bit more substantial, and it was 'only' until early to mid 2010's that utility installations outpaced other installs. According to an industry group, 20GW o…
Re: Sustainable Energy without the Hot Air (Revised, Community Edition)
#130Earlier quoted context omitted.
Saying there is no realistic path to net zero without a reduction in consumption is somewhat funny to me. I don't think it is realistic at all to think that people will accept a reduction in living standards, which is what a reduction in consumption would result in. I think switching consumption to forms that don't cause climate change is more realistic. Failing that, mass carbon capture is still more realistic than…
> Saying there is no realistic path to net zero without a reduction in consumption is somewhat funny to me. I don't think it is realistic at all to think that people will accept a reduction in living standards, which is what a reduction in consumption would result in. I think you’re right. But I think Physics is going to show us the bill at some point and we won’t have a choice. When blackouts will be the norm, peopl…
100,000 TW of sunlight hits the Earth's surface. Global primary energy demand is less than 20 TW. There is no global shortage of energy. If there are local issues, well, that's why we ship energy from one place to another, as is already done on a massive scale.