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Ask HN: Is it unprofessional to leave a new job where everything is a mess?

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Re: Ask HN: Is it unprofessional to leave a new job where everything is a mess?

#101

Post by rkangel »

zamalek wrote: post #88
rkangel wrote: post #56

6 months is a perfectly reasonable amount of time to judge a job and leave it. The important thing is to be able to defend it in future interviews, and do so in a reasoned way rather than an emotional one. For example instead of "the team were incredibly frustrating to work with and ignored all my suggestions", instead "the culture made it very hard to do quality engineering, which over time was demoralising". Sweepi…

Or, "we had differing opinions on how to develop and maintain quality software." You can then answer almost any question (even, "what was the disagreement?") with your ideals, how you've put those ideals into practice in the past, and nothing more. You can indirectly explain the problem while keeping the conversation focused on the purpose of an interview: you and your prospective employer.

The danger is coming across as someone who is too fixed in their approach. I'm sure we've all worked in the past with people who thought they knew everything and walked around saying 'why won't everyone just do it in the way that I'm saying'. Focusing on specific issues and ways you worked with the organisation to improve things avoids that potential categorisation.

Re: Ask HN: Is it unprofessional to leave a new job where everything is a mess?

#102

Post by Werewolf255 »

factorialboy wrote: post #80

Give it an honest try. You may already have. Once you have tried, gave it everything you had, and nothing came out of it, you will have the conviction to walk away. Move on. No shame, no guilt. It's like losing at sports where you tried 100%. Nothing to feel bad. Time for the next challenge.

I feel this, but it just sounds like a way to suck the actual life out of employees for the lowest amount of compensation, and when called out on it, say they have an energetic work environment that only winners can handle.

Re: Ask HN: Is it unprofessional to leave a new job where everything is a mess?

#103

Post by ethbr0 »

thieu96 wrote: post #63

I joined a company and within a handful of days it was clear it was an absolute mess. From code to management. As a cherry on top, the only frontend developer would be leaving the company within a month, and the code was a mess. I discussed my termination of the trial month with the CEO and he was shocked, but asked if I could at least give feedback and guidance to the team, which I did for the remainder of the week,…

This brings up another key point: look around at who else is leaving.

If most of the people you respect and value on your team are leaving, and the other people are staying... well, that tells you more about how everyone else perceives the company too.

Re: Ask HN: Is it unprofessional to leave a new job where everything is a mess?

#105

Post by nomercy400 »

It's not bad to look for something else after six months. Shit jobs exist. Keep looking.

Hard questions for yourself: How did I get in this situation? How did I get such a mismatch between your expectations and reality? Why didn't I see this at the job interview?

Answering these will help you evaluate future job offerings.

Ofcourse I do not know how the interview went. Maybe you didn't ask, maybe you did and they didn't answer fairly. In the first case, ask these questions next time (for example: "Describe to me your process on how you go from source code to a production build?" "How do you run your projects? What methodologies do you use?" "How do you document/test/maintain your code quality?" "What kind of meetings do you have around here?"). See if you can ask about cultural difference as well (you mention Asia vs Europe), and avoid yes/no questions but rather something open.

If they didn't answer fairly during the interview, you have no reason to feel bad for running away.

Re: Ask HN: Is it unprofessional to leave a new job where everything is a mess?

#106

Post by kaetemi »

You sound a bit like a pedant, joining a project that's halfway, who wants everyone else to redo all their work from scratch, because it doesn't follow your own preferred academic practices, which you believe are the only right way to do things.

Did your presence in the team increase productivity, or did you primarily drain your teammates time to enforce your ideals? If the latter, then leave.

You can't force others to work the way you want things done. Nobody likes the guy on the team who believes he knows everything better.

But you could've tried to inspire them instead.

Leaving is fine.

Re: Ask HN: Is it unprofessional to leave a new job where everything is a mess?

#107

Post by tekstar »

Just to play the devil's advocate for a moment here, I've seen many developers join and instead of learning what is around and why it's there, just see everything that existed before they joined as a Bad Decision that Needs To Change To Fit My Expectations. In complex situations sometimes the best solution looks nothing like a textbook Best Practice.

That being said, what you're describing sounds like a shit show. I've seen many talented developers stay way too long at bad places, telling themselves they can make things better.

Re: Ask HN: Is it unprofessional to leave a new job where everything is a mess?

#109

Post by jablan »

ianai wrote: post #82
jablan wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you elaborate pls?

Giving your employer the standard two weeks notice is so if they're called by a place you'd like to work for reference they say they'd rehire you. If you go negative anytime during the exit process your management can use that to flip your re-hire status. That's just one way previous employers can affect someone who's left. The balance of power is firmly stacked against the employee and for the employer. If you want…

Legal circumstances of giving away data of your previous employee aside (which might be very different here in EU), why would my new company rather trust my previous company's bad-mouthing HR than me? And if so, would I be willing to work for such a company?

Re: Ask HN: Is it unprofessional to leave a new job where everything is a mess?

#110

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

Leaving after 6 months is not unprofessional at all. Heck, leaving after 2 weeks can be fine as well. Sometimes you get into a situation and discover it's not what was sold to you, at all. In that case, it's better for all parties, to end it quickly instead of allowing it to drag on.

As an analogy, imagine dating someone who you initially liked, but quickly discover you are incompatible. Better to end it ASAP than to let it drag on, which will only lead to more bitterness in the end.

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