Ask HN: Is it unprofessional to leave a new job where everything is a mess?
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Re: Ask HN: Is it unprofessional to leave a new job where everything is a mess?
#92(Was that meant as dash or em-dash? Are you speaking of a noun -- "vendeta-developers" -- or did you misspell "vendetta" and are explaining that the vendetta is a set of developers in Asia?)
Re: Ask HN: Is it unprofessional to leave a new job where everything is a mess?
#93Re: Ask HN: Is it unprofessional to leave a new job where everything is a mess?
#94Re: Ask HN: Is it unprofessional to leave a new job where everything is a mess?
#95I think it's always okay to leave any job at any time for any reason; I once turned down a job at Google because the hiring manager was a complete asshole (I mentioned I had a dog and his immediate response was "oh god, I hope you never bring that thing into the office because I _hate_ dogs!"), I've left jobs because managers lied about petty shit, and I've left jobs because the company wouldn't allow me to work remotely despite several extremely senior eng leaders advocating on my behalf to do so. IMO, an engineering culture completely devoid of the ability to change is at least as valid as any of the ones I've had to leave, and I can tell you from personal experience that there's a limit to how much any one person can change, no matter their influence, the quality of their ideas, or their passion for righting the ship.
At a certain point, you have to don your own oxygen mask before helping others. Especially if this job is impacting your mental health and/or personal life, cut and run right now. There's no reason to stick around for a job that's not giving you the respect you deserve.
Re: Ask HN: Is it unprofessional to leave a new job where everything is a mess?
#96Earlier quoted context omitted.
> to badmouth the company online, to recruiters, or to future prospective employers. If anyone asks why you quit you should say "I found a better opportunity." If you quit without another job lined up you may get asked in the future to explain the gap, so have an explanation that doesn't make you look unprofessional. It’s not as cut and dry. It is perfectly fine to say you left a company because what you were looking…
> It is perfectly fine to say you left a company because what you were looking for and what the company was doing didn’t align. As someone who has done a good share of interviewing and hiring in my career I disagree somewhat. The answer you gave (what you were looking for and what the company was doing didn't align) seems like a good neutral answer, but it immediately brings some questions to mind: 1. Did you not see…
If I were the candidate, I'd walk out of that interview. No one needs to work for someone this judgy.
> Unless the last employer changed everything radically in the last six months I would wonder about how the candidate got themselves into that situation in the first place.
Have you never bought a product you thought would be great that turned out to be a piece of crap?
Companies make money by selling themselves, and the sales process doesn't stop before hiring employees. Sometimes companies look great from the outside and you can't know what things are really like unless you either start working there or have an insider contact. I've tried figuring out what the workplace and its methodologies are like through the interview process, and it turns out current employees never want to say anything that makes them look bad and middle management dodges questions or sometimes outright lies.
> Does the candidate think their personal goals and wants are the most important thing in an employment relationship?
Yeah, they are, because if those aren't getting satisfied by the employment relationship, we look elsewhere. Why should any employee put the employer's needs over their own?
> I want to respect that every candidate has their own goals and preferences but there's a fine line beyond which those start to seem like demands, or maybe exceptions.
If you don't like their demands, you have the choice to meet those demands or let them go. The employee has the exact same choice. Either your demands are reasonable or they can let you go. This is the most professional perspective because anything beyond that enters the territory of slave driving.
> I may not be against remote work but to have that presented as a requirement or something I have to "align" my team with may be too much at the interview stage.
That's the entire point of an interview! Why would you consider that "too much"? That's crazy to me. If you aren't willing to negotiate or hear what potential candidates are looking for, why should anyone work for you?
Re: Ask HN: Is it unprofessional to leave a new job where everything is a mess?
#97Re: Ask HN: Is it unprofessional to leave a new job where everything is a mess?
#98A company I worked for once interviewed someone who had just started at a different company. We asked why he was leaving so soon, he explained he had some differences of opinion and that it wasn't going to work out well. He seemed great, we hired him, he was indeed great. After we'd hired him, we asked about the old company again. "Oh, it was an utter shitshow" and he went on a long and very compelling rant about how…
This. You're only unprofessional if you start ranting about it at every opportunity you have, specially during a job interview.
I actually interviewed someone who had jumped from both previous employers in an 8 month time frame. In the interview he was very negative to both those groups and wanted to tell me why his ideas where so much better. My interview with him did not last long.