Truths about video game stories • Hacker News Board

Re: Truths about video game stories

#321

Post by pdimitar » Mon, Nov 01, 2021, 11:03 AM UTC

015a wrote: post #252

BashiBazouk wrote: post #204

I'd be in the opposite camp. Video game stories are those things I have to quickly click through to get to the next bit of action. Ya, ya, ya, bla, bla, bla, click, click click, don't care. My ideal is to create my own story rather than have it spoon fed to me. Let me roll a character then let me do what I want in an interactive open world. Sure, some curating and minor direction is OK, but the less the better. I don…

I'd tend to agree. I think games need to be better about "picking a camp". Many games try to force a strong narrative into an open world design, and both qualities end up faltering because of it. Examples: Mass Effect, God of War, Horizon Zero Dawn, most Ubisoft games. The best open world games tell very light narrative. They may have tons of lore to fall upon and discover, but there's otherwise very little arc to th…

I am just wondering what kind of a narrative was forced in "Horizon: Zero Dawn"? You aren't saying that the main character had to side with the camp that wanted to wipe out humanity, or?

As for the mini-factions and side quests, there I can agree -- these are practically the only weak point of the game.

Re: Truths about video game stories

#322

Post by mcphage » Mon, Nov 01, 2021, 12:02 PM UTC

crtasm wrote: post #205

mcphage wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds like it’s still a cut-scene, just one done in-engine. Does the player have any control over the encounter, like shooting the marine or the scientist, before the scene begins?

Here's the moment, unclear if you have full control but I don't think it locked you in to watching..? https://youtu.be/nHXtv11ZAH4?t=184 yes here's a clip of someone saving the scientist: https://youtu.be/e_l84_7jDoU?t=163

That works—I wish the game had responded, but at least it's not a cutscene you're locked into.

Re: Truths about video game stories

#323

Post by deepnet » Mon, Nov 01, 2021, 1:45 PM UTC

Stories are trajectories on a low dimensional manifold of meaningful in the semantic vector space of states and actions.

Curated stories are fragile and less impactful and personal than that interwoven serandipity we navigate by connecting experiences and imbuing them with prepotent engaged meaning viscerally entagling choronological coincidences with the synchronicity of our own personal journey.

There may only be a few archetypal stories, but each heroes journey if it is transformative in the Jungian sense of individuation is a means of self discovering growth in a verdant simulation.

Like culture, myth, fairy tales and dreams video games are a mytho-poetic structure that can utterly envelope and transform us through the power of beauty, harmony, dissonance and engagement.

There is a lot to be said for the abstraction of pixel art in that it can let the imagination fill in the gaps and engage with the characters, suspending disbelief because there is room for the imaginative act to flourish and the self to identify more than the ultra realistic fully defined hyper realism of AAA games - near perfection is an uncanny valley, the shudder that prevents us being fully involved.

Video games are powerful when they engage the imagination, the stories are created by us, we are story tellers that is how we understand ourselves and game experiences are as rich and valid as any art form.

Re: Truths about video game stories

#324

Post by bsd44 » Mon, Nov 01, 2021, 6:03 PM UTC

revolvingocelot wrote: post #301

ycombinete wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What point and click/text adventures do you play?

In addition to the sibling comment, I suggest these as personally assessed to be of high quality: - The Last Door - Gemini Rue - Resonance - Whispers of a Machine

Thanks for the suggestions, these all look good!

Re: Truths about video game stories

#325

Post by DiggyJohnson » Mon, Nov 01, 2021, 6:03 PM UTC

ycombinete wrote: post #206

DiggyJohnson wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm writing a book about Why We Play RuneScape, and this is especially true for the MMORPG genre. Great insight.

That sounds like an interesting book. I’ve never really played an MMO and never understood the appeal. I’d log in and not quite know what to do. I’ve just had the same experience with New World. Do you have some of your writing online somewhere?

Not yet, but I think this is the rare (book) project that seems to get people asking me exactly your question. I'll be starting to share materials as the project comes along.

Really appreciate your interest! Your experience is illuminating, and not unexpected.

Re: Truths about video game stories

#326

Post by tweetle_beetle » Mon, Nov 01, 2021, 8:48 PM UTC

My observation is that people seem to mean many different things by story in games and many of these threads are people talking across purposes. I would agree with the author that game stories are generally pretty crude.

I don't play much these days, but I've realised what I really want is not necessarily a AAA voice cast, gigabytes of lore, plot twists, or what hundreds of users might call a great story. I just want atmosphere: a coherent, impossible to explain sense of being. There are games with massive issues that have great atmosphere and vice versa.

I'd argue that games are much better positioned to offer this than story. It's actually their main strength and what makes much more sense to evaluate.

Re: Truths about video game stories

#327

Post by hypertele-Xii » Mon, Nov 01, 2021, 8:55 PM UTC

watwut wrote: post #294

hypertele-Xii wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Half-Life has a bunch of player/story choices. Most of them small and inconsequential, I'll grant you, like the microwave incident, but Half-Life even ends on a meaningul story player choice - whether to accept the job proposal. Wolfenstein and Doom have literally zero story choices of any kind. Not even inconsequential ones! Clearly, Half-Life has superior story telling to Wolfenstein or Doom. Not by much, can be ar…

Half life is going through exactly determined road with no option to turn left or right. There were token decisions, but that is it, they were just covers. In wolfesrwin, you could at least go back and had choice between left or right doors. Half life had only way to go - forward. It was like sitting on train moving on railroad.

I think you are remembering things unfavorably. Half-Life has many dead ends that do not advance the game, but contain nuggets of story activated by player interaction.

Maybe you just missed them all!

Just off the top of my head from the start of the game: Activating the alarm from the button on the reception desk, getting the guard into trouble. Going into the kitchen and playing with the microwave cassarole (referenced from later sequel!). Opening lockers in the locker room (looking at people's stuff), getting the hazard suit and heading back (if you try to proceed without suit, guard will tell you to go get it - nonlinear maps!). Pressing the broken elevator button, sending people plummeting. Opening the dumpster to find the hiding scientist. Operating vending machines.

Did Wolfenstein or Doom have anything like this? In Wolfenstein you can optionally open cells and find hidden doors behind walls. In Doom you can push buttons, and you are always required to do so to proceed.

Re: Truths about video game stories

#328

Post by waterloosong » Mon, Nov 01, 2021, 11:14 PM UTC

everdrive wrote: post #213

Many video games have very poor or bare plots, but amazing settings. In fact, I'm not sure that video games are actually good vehicles for plots. Video games are interactive, but all good plots require careful pacing and timing in order to be successful. It's possible to force this in a game, but the more you do, the more the game becomes an interactive movie. A great example would be Dark Souls: incredible setting,…

I am wary of this kind of casual reduction of videogame plots to one-sentence summaries that is all frequent in online discussions. For all I know, the plot of Grim Fandango could be said to be "you're the chosen undead, and you must quest for some items" and Grim Fandango story is one of the best.

There's probably not so much of Grim Fandango story in Dark Souls, given there is not so many friendlies in the latter. If anything, I would compare it to System Shock 2, but in fantasy genre rather than sf. The story of System Shock 2 was fine, though maybe not that famous because Half-Life beat it to market.

Obviously those are examples from 90's and there is always the question about modern games; AAA as well as those made on lesser budgets. Funny the author of the blog roasts titles such as Firewatch and Spec Ops: Dubai.

Re: Truths about video game stories

#329

Post by johnchristopher » Tue, Nov 02, 2021, 12:06 AM UTC

reilly3000 wrote: post #54

There are several games I’ve played where I remember playing racing through the action to get further into the story, or games that put storytelling at the center. In no particular order: - Bastion - The Stanley Parable - Bioshock Infinite - The Elder Scrolls series - GTA: V - Control - Sam and Max Sure this isn’t high art, but often is deeply compelling regardless. The possibilities of the medium are still yet to be…

I suggest Father and Son https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=it.tuomuseo.fa... on Android.

Re: Truths about video game stories

#330

Post by johnchristopher » Tue, Nov 02, 2021, 12:12 AM UTC

baq wrote: post #77

npinsker wrote: post #41

I guess 'The Lord of the Rings' is a bad story then? After all it is exactly the kind of story this person is complaining about...

It was a good story at the time; it created a genre and is indirectly responsible for many, many great works. If it was created today, it’d be a generic high fantasy work.

Can't remeber where I read it or if it's an original thought but reading lotr was like reading the main story, okay, but also sitting at the campfire and hearing about stories from before.

The whole book is as much about the fellowship's quest than the backstory of the whole world and that's what got me in when reading it. It's not about what's happening to our heroes but what happened to others before.