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They don't even know the fundamentals

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Re: They don't even know the fundamentals

#11

Post by catlikesshrimp »

geewee wrote: post #4
sparks1970 wrote: post #2

> There is another fundamental that is ignored by a lot of computer users. I think everyone who spends a lot of time behind a computer should learn how to touch type, since typing is still the main way of interacting with your computer. I sort of agree, but anyone typing out code at 120WPM isn't programming, they're writing. Programming is an intellectual activity, not a physical one so learning to touch type is wort…

I've seen this argument before and I don't think I agree. Surely there's a lot of times when I program that are heavy into thinking, but there's also a lot of mechanical work. Refactoring? Typing speed will help you. Going to try out a new approach? Typing speed will help you to see whether it's true or not. Everything else being equal, typing speed will help you try out stuff faster.

I think that hunting for the correct key is distracting.

I am pretty sure that people who didn't learn to type properly have to switch their whole mind frame from the content into the typing, back and forth.

Some people even speak outloud, or at least move their lips according to, whatever they are typing.

Re: They don't even know the fundamentals

#13

Post by marcos100 »

sparks1970 wrote: post #2

> There is another fundamental that is ignored by a lot of computer users. I think everyone who spends a lot of time behind a computer should learn how to touch type, since typing is still the main way of interacting with your computer. I sort of agree, but anyone typing out code at 120WPM isn't programming, they're writing. Programming is an intellectual activity, not a physical one so learning to touch type is wort…

You touch type not to break a world record. You touch type because you can write without thinking about the keyboard, just like you don't think when using or arms or legs, and it's faster to correct an error that you made.

Imagine that you want to correct a block of code or a whole paragraph. If you don't touch type, maybe you will think twice before rewriting it.

Re: They don't even know the fundamentals

#14

Post by lytefm »

> “Yes, every programmer should know how their hardware works as one cannot write an efficient software without that knowledge 4, and I wouldn’t be able to do my job if I didn’t know anything about computer internals, yak, yak, yak…”

I agree that you don't need to know anything about von Neumann Architecture and the likes in order to be a Web Dev.

But I wouldn't want to hire someone who doesn't have basic knowledge about data structures and runtime complexity. It's just too easy to have something work fine in development, but choke in production due to accidentally quadratic behaviour.

Re: They don't even know the fundamentals

#15

Post by bluepnume »

edem wrote: post #5

> For the majority of programmers out there, something being RESTful means that you can feed it chunks of JSON over HTTP. The minority, who have spent some time reading about it, will complain that it’s a design principle defined in the Roy Fielding’s thesis and it has nothing to do with JSON or HTTP 3. How many of you have actually read his thesis? All of it? No skipping? I've been railing about this for years. Plea…

Probably pick a different hill to die on. The meaning of "REST" in common parlance is now just HTTP+JSON, nothing more. At best, the url might represent a noun.

Re: They don't even know the fundamentals

#16

Post by tsm »

sparks1970 wrote: post #2

> There is another fundamental that is ignored by a lot of computer users. I think everyone who spends a lot of time behind a computer should learn how to touch type, since typing is still the main way of interacting with your computer. I sort of agree, but anyone typing out code at 120WPM isn't programming, they're writing. Programming is an intellectual activity, not a physical one so learning to touch type is wort…

It's not about clock time, it's about reducing the latency (and friction) between thinking about code and having it written.

I might think for a couple minutes and then come up with ten lines of code, and once they're in my head I want them in my editor now before I lose track of them.

Re: They don't even know the fundamentals

#17

Post by jve »

sparks1970 wrote: post #2

> There is another fundamental that is ignored by a lot of computer users. I think everyone who spends a lot of time behind a computer should learn how to touch type, since typing is still the main way of interacting with your computer. I sort of agree, but anyone typing out code at 120WPM isn't programming, they're writing. Programming is an intellectual activity, not a physical one so learning to touch type is wort…

Do someone really needs to learn touch typing? It comes naturally when you are using computer daily.

Re: They don't even know the fundamentals

#18

Post by marcos100 »

have_faith wrote: post #9
geewee wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen this argument before and I don't think I agree. Surely there's a lot of times when I program that are heavy into thinking, but there's also a lot of mechanical work. Refactoring? Typing speed will help you. Going to try out a new approach? Typing speed will help you to see whether it's true or not. Everything else being equal, typing speed will help you try out stuff faster.

All else being equal sure typing faster is only going to make you more productive but a slower typer who is better at solving complex problems is always going to be more valuable than a fast typer who is not as good. I don’t think I’ve ever encountered a programmer that was too slow to simply be productive and valuable to a business which makes it questionable advice for anyone to follow.

It's about touch typing only. If you start changing other variables, the comparison doesn't make sense anymore (to the discussion).

Of course your senior engineer that wrote the thing will be more productive than your intern that writes 1000 WPM.

Re: They don't even know the fundamentals

#19

Post by FroshKiller »

geewee wrote: post #4
sparks1970 wrote: post #2

> There is another fundamental that is ignored by a lot of computer users. I think everyone who spends a lot of time behind a computer should learn how to touch type, since typing is still the main way of interacting with your computer. I sort of agree, but anyone typing out code at 120WPM isn't programming, they're writing. Programming is an intellectual activity, not a physical one so learning to touch type is wort…

I've seen this argument before and I don't think I agree. Surely there's a lot of times when I program that are heavy into thinking, but there's also a lot of mechanical work. Refactoring? Typing speed will help you. Going to try out a new approach? Typing speed will help you to see whether it's true or not. Everything else being equal, typing speed will help you try out stuff faster.

I'm a developer who is also a pretty fast typist, and I have to say that's not my experience. I wouldn't want to hunt and peck, but my sense is that higher than, like, 40 GWAM probably yields diminishing returns.

Language might make a difference there. Writing C# with a QWERTY keyboard, you still have to interrupt a normal typing flow for your parentheses, braces, etc.

I suppose it's helpful if you're writing long comments, but for the most part, I rarely hit sustained bursts of my peak typing speed when writing code.

Re: They don't even know the fundamentals

#20

Post by bluesign »

lytefm wrote: post #14

> “Yes, every programmer should know how their hardware works as one cannot write an efficient software without that knowledge 4, and I wouldn’t be able to do my job if I didn’t know anything about computer internals, yak, yak, yak…” I agree that you don't need to know anything about von Neumann Architecture and the likes in order to be a Web Dev. But I wouldn't want to hire someone who doesn't have basic knowledge a…

Usually I had funny but opposite experience when doing consulting for performance optimizations.

At some points either teams converged to people without basic knowledge of data structures or they rushed with something that works (when N in O(N) was small) then scaled up. They get used to lower performance slowly like boiled frog.

Then someone is tasked with optimization, but instead of attacking data structure at hand, usually those people tried to optimize pieces of the puzzle for smaller gain, then they ended up with small hacks to shave some execution time, with unmaintainable code which lead to serious bugs.

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