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Crypto Cities

vitalik.ca

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Re: Crypto Cities

#21

Post by nivertech »

pharmakom wrote: post #10
_xnmw wrote: post #7

I think I finally "get" crypto. This article made me see the light. Crypto is about secession - a techno-anarchy. Decentralized governance with a self-managed currency is effectively creating a new city-state. To be honest, the idea of the United States collapsing into a collection of Crypto City-States doesn't sound too bad. Better than a Mad Max scenario.

If you want to really understand the true crypto believers (the earlier crowd, not the speculators) you must read Atlas Shrugged. In it, the heroes form their own society away from an (in their eyes) overreaching government, built on free exchange. In it they have a special bank vault that can never be looted, keeping their wealth safe, even in the event of the community being invaded. If it is forced open, the conte…

Not that dissimilar to what some earlier colonialist charters did, and even countries like Canada are still doing today (with their point-based immigration system). Also similar to some modern micronation[1] enthusiasts, but they aren't as successful.

The very earliest Zionists (Chaim Weizmann[2]) didn't wanted to build a Jewish state, they wanted an ideal/Utopian society with the elite people speaking perfect German. They acquired the charter from the British and were very picky about whom they allowed to immigrate. I.e. they planned to hand pick only up to tens of thousands candidates per year. Eventually they were pushed away by more pragmatic non-colonialist Zionists, who wanted to build (or restore/revive[3]) a normal Jewish nation-state, not the Utopian society.

Something similar but on much larger scale happened in Rhodesia[4] (modern Zimbabwe).

There are probably other examples of picky charter states that I missed.

I remember years ago there were plans to found Crypto states in Central America / Caribbean region (Nicaragua, Puerto Rico). It's relatively easy to bribe the politicians there and get some of the country regions as a concession/charter/"Free Economic Zone".

--

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micronation

[2] https://www.britannica.com/biography/Chaim-Weizmann

[3] there were plans to build a new Jewish states in Uganda or Madagascar, but the only place to restore/revive Jewish statehood was in the Land of Israel/Palestina.

[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhodesia

Re: Crypto Cities

#22

Post by captn3m0 »

This (along with other posts from Vitalik) keep ignoring any solutions that don’t require blockchain. As an example, he writes:

> Certificates, for example cryptographic proofs that some particular individual is a resident of the city, could be done on-chain for added verifiability and security (eg. if such certificates are issued on-chain, it would become obvious if a large number of false certificates are issued). This can be used by all kinds of local-government-issued certificates.

He does point out latter how does could probably not be decentralised 100% due to legal requirements.

We already have a working solution for this problem in the PKI World - Cert Transparency. It works, is somewhat decentralised and has worked really well. Doesn’t need a blockchain.

Re: Crypto Cities

#23

Post by Blackstone4 »

all very cool because of the use of the word crypto which has great marketing but really what we are talking about is a mix of decentralized databases and decentralized currencies. Doesnt sound quite as cool if put like that...

Re: Crypto Cities

#24

Post by pharmakom »

dragonelite wrote: post #19
pharmakom wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to really understand the true crypto believers (the earlier crowd, not the speculators) you must read Atlas Shrugged. In it, the heroes form their own society away from an (in their eyes) overreaching government, built on free exchange. In it they have a special bank vault that can never be looted, keeping their wealth safe, even in the event of the community being invaded. If it is forced open, the conte…

Sounds like a dystopian shithole, capitalism has never really worked without state intervention, bailing out the capitalist/bankers asses or suppressing worker protests. Capitalism without minimal government control is nothing more then neo feudalism. Maybe that is what they want, the early crypto adopters have the biggest bags of all sorts of coins it protects them from the harsh living conditions such a neo feudal…

They would disagree that free markets lead to neo feudalism. A bit like socialists, they would claim their system has never really been tried. And in there defence, modern western economies have huge state involvement (including cronyism) so cannot be used as examples of a free market society.

Re: Crypto Cities

#25

Post by lucasverra »

joosters wrote: post #8
lucasverra wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Local currencies are a thing since the middle age. They allow for a distinct set of rules (=! Inflation rate) governed by “local” representatives. In strong economies (like g7), it does not make much sense, granted. You may lose on the exchange processes vs “the global currency”, but your community may not care since aiming to trade locally. PS : in constant inflationary economies (read Argentina, i think 600% in 10y…

Stable coins are all the rage to fight inflation. 'Regular Joes' call them dollars, they exist as pieces of paper you can hold in your hand. They don't need to play silly games with crypto scammers.

- Do you know what currency controls are? - it's the government telling how much you can have of those dollars - it's the government mandatory currency conversion to local currency when receiving dollars from outside the country. Gvmt keep the dollars and hand you local currency (that one that is loosing value by the day)

Re: Crypto Cities

#26

Post by ericmay »

pharmakom wrote: post #13
pharmakom wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to really understand the true crypto believers (the earlier crowd, not the speculators) you must read Atlas Shrugged. In it, the heroes form their own society away from an (in their eyes) overreaching government, built on free exchange. In it they have a special bank vault that can never be looted, keeping their wealth safe, even in the event of the community being invaded. If it is forced open, the conte…

Further background is The Sovereign Individual, which has some ugly white supremisist overtones, but also discusses crypto and a return to city states.

Could you quote or explain some of the things that you found to be overtones of white supremacy?

Re: Crypto Cities

#27

Post by oleganza »

captn3m0 wrote: post #22

This (along with other posts from Vitalik) keep ignoring any solutions that don’t require blockchain. As an example, he writes: > Certificates, for example cryptographic proofs that some particular individual is a resident of the city, could be done on-chain for added verifiability and security (eg. if such certificates are issued on-chain, it would become obvious if a large number of false certificates are issued).…

Since "blockchain" is already a very stretched term, I think Cert Transparency log can be classified as a blockchain.

Re: Crypto Cities

#28

Post by unstatusthequo »

joosters wrote: post #8
lucasverra wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Local currencies are a thing since the middle age. They allow for a distinct set of rules (=! Inflation rate) governed by “local” representatives. In strong economies (like g7), it does not make much sense, granted. You may lose on the exchange processes vs “the global currency”, but your community may not care since aiming to trade locally. PS : in constant inflationary economies (read Argentina, i think 600% in 10y…

Stable coins are all the rage to fight inflation. 'Regular Joes' call them dollars, they exist as pieces of paper you can hold in your hand. They don't need to play silly games with crypto scammers.

Holding cash during inflationary periods doesn’t fight inflation. Your dollar becomes less valuable.

Re: Crypto Cities

#29

Post by pjc50 »

lucasverra wrote: post #25
joosters wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stable coins are all the rage to fight inflation. 'Regular Joes' call them dollars, they exist as pieces of paper you can hold in your hand. They don't need to play silly games with crypto scammers.

- Do you know what currency controls are? - it's the government telling how much you can have of those dollars - it's the government mandatory currency conversion to local currency when receiving dollars from outside the country. Gvmt keep the dollars and hand you local currency (that one that is loosing value by the day)

Yes. Countries not using dollars are exposed to conversion risk and potential shortages of hard currency. People whose native currency is the US dollar are not exposed to this risk, which is why all the inflation hawk stuff tends to look silly.

Re: Crypto Cities

#30

Post by snapcaster »

simonebrunozzi wrote: post #20
simonebrunozzi wrote: post #4

Worth mentioning is Fabrica, a platform to enable super quick and inexpensive real estate transactions using the blockchain [0]. Disclaimer: I have shares in the company and I was a co-founder long time ago. [0]: https://www.fabrica.land/

I cited something extremely relevant (a platform that uses blockchain to digitize real estate), and correctly disclaim that I am involved, and you downvoted me. I would have appreciated a comment and/or a reason for the downvote.

If you're actually in good faith confused on the downvotes I think it's because people are so sick of hearing and reading people shilling their pet "blockchain for X" company/idea/coin
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