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Truths about video game stories

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Re: Truths about video game stories

#311

Post by SamoyedFurFluff »

hhjinks wrote: post #215
SamoyedFurFluff wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually found nier automatas story beats so cringey that I was turned off on the playing of it, honestly. Pretty early on a pile of robots start an orgy that creates a human-looking clearly-not-a-human villain. It felt totally directionless and random at the time. I didn’t really want to continue if I was just going to get weird shit happening with an overlay of philosophical hand waving.

You got 2 hours into the game and dropped it because you felt the themes were surface level? You were unironically filtered. The game does name drop a lot philosophers, but it's meant to contextualize, not as part of the game's themes. Hell, the game doesn't even care about the "humans and robots aren't actually so different" question. I don't want to write a whole essay, so I'll just say that Automata is probably th…

If a game wastes two hours of my time without being able to appear like it has any direction I truly question the quality of its storytelling. If I want existentialism I can get it in a 10 minute long flash fiction piece from Fireside Fiction.

Re: Truths about video game stories

#312

Post by AtlasBarfed »

BashiBazouk wrote: post #204

I'd be in the opposite camp. Video game stories are those things I have to quickly click through to get to the next bit of action. Ya, ya, ya, bla, bla, bla, click, click click, don't care. My ideal is to create my own story rather than have it spoon fed to me. Let me roll a character then let me do what I want in an interactive open world. Sure, some curating and minor direction is OK, but the less the better. I don…

I think this is typical of one-playthrough stuff.

You'll be so concerned with adapting your brain to the mechanics and artificial limitations on a semi-real-appearing world (cue Zero Punc's knee high fence stalwart joke), do you have time for any story of complexity?

If a game is good, you'll play through twice. THEN if they're really good, you'll pick up more of the story, especially easter eggs if they are competent.

RE: edgy cred, yeah, that's still the maturation of the market. The problem with video games still remains the catering-to-teenager previous two decades. It's like any large budget or worthwhile game was all shonen manga. And really it still has that core.

Video games will eventually branch out. I bring up manga, because I think games in Japan have always been more about characters, plot, and complexity, and had more offball ones.

The characters in American games are still pretty crappy. Consider that DOOM and Halo are headed by... generic McToxicMale-SchwartzeneggerPredator-In-A-Helmet. All the other shooter games were stuck in the same rut.

Re: Truths about video game stories

#313

Post by Noumenon72 »

waterloosong wrote: post #309
joveian wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The author knows that being salty and otherwise obnoxious drives clicks, which is as much how he makes money as the writing in the games. I'd disagree with Undertale, which is the only one on your list I have played, although I didn't make it far (a few others you mention are on my list already). Of course, there is always quite a bit of personal taste involved in such things. My list would be something like: -RiME -…

This is Jeff Vogel's blog.

That's funny. When I saw him being salty and obnoxious I checked the author on the piece, but since it was a Substack and didn't say "Jeff Vogel" I decided it was just a coincidence and I should keep reading since it was a new perspective. Guess not.

Re: Truths about video game stories

#314

Post by Noumenon72 »

thriftwy wrote: post #184
shmde wrote: post #87

Here are some single player narrative/story driven games which are worth your time and money and also has decent to good storyline. The author seems way too salty over some games I think. - The Last of Us 1 & 2 ( Must play ) - RDR 1&2. ( 2 is must play ) - GTA IV - Mafia 2 - A Plague Tale: Innocence ( must play ) - Metro series. - Inside - Witcher 3 - A Way out ( needs 2 player ) - Night in the woods - Breath of the…

Star Control II and Alpha Centauri are on par with the best SF books out there. Vernor Vinge quality, I would say.

SCII is a great example. The way the Ur-Quan are characterized, their motivations revealed, their factions delineated, is a lot more than you know about most villains. The way some little side mysteries become plot threads while others reveal the depths of the side character races is really good storytelling.

Re: Truths about video game stories

#315

Post by Noumenon72 »

martinmakesgame wrote: post #291

I'm really surprised that out of 276 comments, only one comment mentions that this is Jeff Vogel. I have enjoyed playing Jeff's games in the past, I think his games are beautiful. He's amazing as a game maker with all of his experience.

I wonder if he hid that on purpose to seem like a fresh perspective? He doesn't even mention it in his Substack bio.

Re: Truths about video game stories

#317

Post by drdeca »

ajuc wrote: post #145
SamoyedFurFluff wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there’s a bit where stories can be extremely complex but still have interactivity from the player. Bioware produces games like this where decisions made from previous games can be inherited to affect future games, and the overall storylines are complex and nuanced, albeit mostly in what BioWare can control (world building, npcs making decisions and having their own agendas, etc.)

Yes, that's the hybrid model used by most RPGs: - visual novel mode for dialogues and plot choices where player freedom is very restricted by story can be detailed - game mode for mechanics and combat that have barely any influence on the story (besides "survive this challenge to continue") but players have freedom to express themselves It is very formulaic in structure, I'd argue more formulaic than ancient theater,…

Not sure quite how much is required for something to count as an an rpg, but I have seen a couple experimental games where the way the difficulty ramps up is that after each level, the player has to choose which skill to lose / level down.

Didn’t have much of a plot though.

Just “you are fleeing a deep cavern or something after stealing a great deal of arcane power (more than you have the mental capacity to hold onto)”. Never saw how it ended. I imagine it is either meant to inevitably end in defeat, or it ends with the character having lost all the power they stole , escaping with only their life, or perhaps, having lost all of it, being unable to continue to evade capture.

Re: Truths about video game stories

#318

Post by SZJX »

This is exactly why I don't play single-player games anymore, not even JRPGs which are supposed to be more story-focused but which just end up going the safe and mainstream route anyways, especially if they're a big-budget production similar to AAA games in the west.

Grinding against AI enemies is totally pointless (well at least until real "AI" akin to Alphago becomes popularized I guess). If I want to be challenged on skills and mental traits via gameplay, I play against other human players in multiplayer games (I don't do that either since this year, as it can ultimately be perceived as a repetitive timesink from which you get nothing new, once you reach a certain level in terms of ranking and of course can't go further by making it your full-time job).

Nowadays I pretty much just read visual novels https://vndb.org/, when not reading actual traditional books. I believe it's still a relatively niche genre in the west, though its popularity outside of Japan has been steadily growing in the last decade. There's truly no limit to the authors' creativity in the world of VN, and you get all sorts of thought-provoking and sometimes even life-changing experience (not an exaggeration, see reviews for the highest-rated VN of all time https://vndb.org/v92), which when delivered well cannot be replicated in any other medium.

PS: people say "nobody reads books anymore these days" all the time just like the author does, the validity of which I have always doubted. 100 years ago the literacy rate was much lower than it is nowadays. And even 30 or 40 years ago, it was unlikely that the vast majority of the populace were into serious reading instead of more straightforward pasttime such as TV or just a day out on the beach. Reading has always been a relatively minority hobby and has probably already managed to become more popular (especially with the proliferation of audiobooks and other technologies), instead of declining.

Re: Truths about video game stories

#319

Post by watwut »

hhjinks wrote: post #215
SamoyedFurFluff wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually found nier automatas story beats so cringey that I was turned off on the playing of it, honestly. Pretty early on a pile of robots start an orgy that creates a human-looking clearly-not-a-human villain. It felt totally directionless and random at the time. I didn’t really want to continue if I was just going to get weird shit happening with an overlay of philosophical hand waving.

You got 2 hours into the game and dropped it because you felt the themes were surface level? You were unironically filtered. The game does name drop a lot philosophers, but it's meant to contextualize, not as part of the game's themes. Hell, the game doesn't even care about the "humans and robots aren't actually so different" question. I don't want to write a whole essay, so I'll just say that Automata is probably th…

If the artwork or entertainment is still surface level after 2 hours, then it is 100% smart to drop it.

It is just absurd to waste more then 2 hours on something like that.

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