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Truths about video game stories

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Re: Truths about video game stories

#301

Post by revolvingocelot »

ycombinete wrote: post #207
bsd44 wrote: post #160

That's why I mostly play point&click adventure/rpg games and text adventures, because that genre can't really survive without a good story. I'm rarely disappointed and the games cost a fraction of what you would pay for a AAA title. Not that I don't like AAA, but every time I watch a gameplay video I get bored fairly quickly because I don't feel drawn to the game, it seems "same old, same old". Perhaps it's just me.…

What point and click/text adventures do you play?

In addition to the sibling comment, I suggest these as personally assessed to be of high quality:

     - The Last Door
     - Gemini Rue
     - Resonance
     - Whispers of a Machine

Re: Truths about video game stories

#302

Post by stubish »

danielvaughn wrote: post #130
MomoXenosaga wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As opposed to what? The average superhero story that Hollywood has been milking for 20 years now? Compare videogames not to great literature but to popular culture.

Yep. Just think about all the latest Jurassic Park films. They're almost identical to video games in story-telling quality.

We have a new generation of script writers shaped by computer games rather than books, radio or cinema. We will look back in fondness once we get script writers shaped by social media.

Re: Truths about video game stories

#303

Post by oehpr »

everdrive wrote: post #213

Many video games have very poor or bare plots, but amazing settings. In fact, I'm not sure that video games are actually good vehicles for plots. Video games are interactive, but all good plots require careful pacing and timing in order to be successful. It's possible to force this in a game, but the more you do, the more the game becomes an interactive movie. A great example would be Dark Souls: incredible setting,…

>in Wind Waker you must rescue your sister, but in practice the player is running around an island, breaking pots, and doing sidequests. The narrative plot and the play actions are almost totally disparate.

If you're looking for a search term for this, it's "ludonarrative dissonance". Spawned a bunch of interesting discussions. eg. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04zaTjuV60A

And a lot of infighting. And there was a point where even using that term was bound to get you insulted.

Re: Truths about video game stories

#304

Post by crtasm »

watwut wrote: post #277
crtasm wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But not in first person, you-are-present-in-a-3D-world games? At least I'm not remembering any that felt like Half Life 1 did. The difference between a cut scene and embodying a character while things happen around you isn't a minor thing for many of us.

The castle of wolfestein or doom are both significantly older and allow more freedom. System shock was a year later and allowed actual tactical choices and somewhat strategical o es. Half life was part of pattern of moving towards extremely linear. It had better graphics than normal at the time. It had attempt at actual story. It was not move toward more agency to the player nor toward subtlety. It had less choices t…

You've jumped from talking about storytelling to player freedom, I'm certain I way had more agency in HL1 than Doom.

Re: Truths about video game stories

#305

Post by joveian »

shmde wrote: post #87

Here are some single player narrative/story driven games which are worth your time and money and also has decent to good storyline. The author seems way too salty over some games I think. - The Last of Us 1 & 2 ( Must play ) - RDR 1&2. ( 2 is must play ) - GTA IV - Mafia 2 - A Plague Tale: Innocence ( must play ) - Metro series. - Inside - Witcher 3 - A Way out ( needs 2 player ) - Night in the woods - Breath of the…

The author knows that being salty and otherwise obnoxious drives clicks, which is as much how he makes money as the writing in the games.

I'd disagree with Undertale, which is the only one on your list I have played, although I didn't make it far (a few others you mention are on my list already). Of course, there is always quite a bit of personal taste involved in such things.

My list would be something like:

-RiME

-Falcom's Trails series

-My Brother Rabbit

-Rakuen

-Röki

-Higurashi When They Cry Hou

-King of Dragon Pass/Six Ages (particularly the mythology parts)

Maybe also to a lesser degree:

-Amnesia: Memories

-London Detective Mysteria

-To The Moon

Of these, RiME and My Brother Rabbit have no text but still tell a story very well IMO while Falcom's games have tons of text (more than any individual book) and cut some corners in the story but do a lot of things well and you get to interact with a lot of different characters and hear their perspective on the world.

Higurashi When They Cry Hou was IMO unquestionably the best written of them all (which makes sense as mentioned in another thread it is a book with sound not an interactive game), although I liked it least since I don't like horror but didn't realize it is a horror game.

For Fossil Echo and The Journey Down I thought the storytelling was particularly good in how it combines video with the game but the story itself was not all that good and the games themselves were disappointing IMO. I think I would put The Longest Journey in a similar category also (and likely Sibera, although I've only played a bit of it).

Re: Truths about video game stories

#306

Post by mbrodersen »

mkotowski wrote: post #29
aynsof wrote: post #5

I remember all the press praising the original Half Life for its story. I was really surprised - it was the same story as all first person shooters going back to Doom: Bad guys spawn across an inter-dimensional portal and start wreaking havoc. Protagonist has to kill them all, crossing the portal in the process to go destroy the alien leader. There were some cool extra details - the G Man, the marines entering as a t…

> This author has it spot on: our standards for story telling in video games are really low. Are they? I would say that they are, but not for video games, but for all things in general. Sturgeon's law [0] states that "ninety percent of everything is crap." And it was supposedly originally about sci-fi novels! “Fifty Shades of Grey” was completely criticized on all fronts by reviewers, but still became one of the top…

A clear example of reviewers not getting it. And yet another reason why you should ignore reviewers.

Re: Truths about video game stories

#307

Post by deterministic »

smoldesu wrote: post #177
platz wrote: post #175

When photography was invented, people judged it by how well it could compare to a painting, before discovering what made the medium unique. Video games are in a similar position, in which they are evaluated on 'story', which is how one evaluates movies. once we realize video games are not movies in terms of what effect they are supposed to produce, we will to be able to evaluate them on their own terms For example, m…

As John Carmack once said (I'm loosely paraphrasing here) "Stories in video games are like stories in porno: they're expected to be there, but never any good."

John might be a good programmer but that doesn’t mean he has a clue about anything else.

Re: Truths about video game stories

#308

Post by 015a »

tormeh wrote: post #290
015a wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd tend to agree. I think games need to be better about "picking a camp". Many games try to force a strong narrative into an open world design, and both qualities end up faltering because of it. Examples: Mass Effect, God of War, Horizon Zero Dawn, most Ubisoft games. The best open world games tell very light narrative. They may have tons of lore to fall upon and discover, but there's otherwise very little arc to th…

For someone like me who doesn't really like the passive experience of movies/TV, story-heavy games are a good thing. What Remains of Edith Finch is one of my favorite games of all time.

Edith Finch is one of my favorite games of all time, as well.

I debated not including it on the above list, because one of the things it does absolutely fantastically well is, lets call it, ludonarrative resonance. The opposite of ludonarrative dissonance; it synergizes gameplay and story to such an incredibly powerful degree, that its story is made better by the gameplay, and its gameplay (what it has) is made better by the story.

That being said, its gameplay is more in the Firewatch/Telltale category than, say, Mass Effect.

Another game which feels squarely in the ludonarrative resonant category is Celeste. If you've played Celeste, you know: its a hell of a frustrating experience. Your experience clearing those platforming challenges precisely mirrors Madeline's experience scaling the mountain. You'll have moments where you'll tell yourself "this game is too hard for me", "I can't do this", just like how Badeline tries to convince Madeline that she isn't good enough to climb the mountain. In the end, you never stop feeling frustrated; you learn to live with the frustration, as it pushes you to be a better player; just as Madeline learns to live with her ugly side, and it makes them both better for it by giving you a double dash for the last level.

Celeste could never be a movie; its narrative is too simple to work outside a form of interactive media, where the interactivity empowers the narrative by creating in you the same emotions being narrated through the main character.

Re: Truths about video game stories

#309

Post by waterloosong »

joveian wrote: post #305
shmde wrote: post #87

Here are some single player narrative/story driven games which are worth your time and money and also has decent to good storyline. The author seems way too salty over some games I think. - The Last of Us 1 & 2 ( Must play ) - RDR 1&2. ( 2 is must play ) - GTA IV - Mafia 2 - A Plague Tale: Innocence ( must play ) - Metro series. - Inside - Witcher 3 - A Way out ( needs 2 player ) - Night in the woods - Breath of the…

The author knows that being salty and otherwise obnoxious drives clicks, which is as much how he makes money as the writing in the games. I'd disagree with Undertale, which is the only one on your list I have played, although I didn't make it far (a few others you mention are on my list already). Of course, there is always quite a bit of personal taste involved in such things. My list would be something like: -RiME -…

This is Jeff Vogel's blog.

Re: Truths about video game stories

#310

Post by smoldesu »

deterministic wrote: post #307
smoldesu wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As John Carmack once said (I'm loosely paraphrasing here) "Stories in video games are like stories in porno: they're expected to be there, but never any good."

John might be a good programmer but that doesn’t mean he has a clue about anything else.

Eh, in my humble opinion I think this has held true for the majority of games I've played. Even still, the larger metaphor is that most players prefer action to storytelling.
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