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The economics of pumpkin patches

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Re: The economics of pumpkin patches

#61

Post by cmrdporcupine »

ashtonkem wrote: post #30

The farm we go to rotates which field is used as their season pumpkin patch on a year by year basis. We wondered if there was some crop rotation benefit to doing that, like maybe pumpkins fix nitrogen so they’re a good intermittent crop between other nitrogen depleting species.

Three things (from my experience at our little market garden farm):

Cucurbits (squashes, gourds, pumpkins, zuchinis, etc.) are heavy feeders. They use a lot of nitrogen, require fairly rich soil. So they're typical grown in recently amended soil. So growing them multiple years in a row in the same spot has some challenges.

They attract quite a few pests (fungal and insect). But those pests tend to be specific to cucurbits (or Cucurbitaceae, including melons, etc.). So it's a good idea to rotate them out so that overwintering pests in the plot don't have a free snack the next year.

Finally, they make a good crop to plant at the beginning of a rotation because they grow quickly and cover the ground, blocking the sun and drowning out many weeds. So a good way to bring new land into production or to get some perennial weeds out of a plot that you want to use for something else the next year.

Re: The economics of pumpkin patches

#62

Post by paulcole »

Rastonbury wrote: post #52
paulcole wrote: post #2

I like how the article takes a hard turn from statistics: > Americans are expected to spend a record $10B+ on Halloween items in 2021, up from $8B last year — and pumpkins are a big player: Among the 65% of Americans celebrating Halloween this year, 44% (~94m people) plan to carve one. Straight to vague generalities: > While pumpkins can readily be found at most grocery stores, many folks turn to a patch to procure t…

You were hoping for a survey of where halloween pumpkin buyers buy their pumpkins?

Yes, seems like knowing how many people buy pumpkins at pumpkin patches might be useful information for an article on the economics of pumpkin patches.

Re: The economics of pumpkin patches

#63

Post by paulcole »

guerrilla wrote: post #5
paulcole wrote: post #2

I like how the article takes a hard turn from statistics: > Americans are expected to spend a record $10B+ on Halloween items in 2021, up from $8B last year — and pumpkins are a big player: Among the 65% of Americans celebrating Halloween this year, 44% (~94m people) plan to carve one. Straight to vague generalities: > While pumpkins can readily be found at most grocery stores, many folks turn to a patch to procure t…

Or the person just wanted to write about pumpkin patches, did that, and getting statistics on them was impossible considering how informal they are.

Feels like the statistics of how many people buy pumpkins at pumpkin patches could be important to an article titled the economics of pumpkin patches.

Re: The economics of pumpkin patches

#64

Post by [deleted] »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #31
jjmellon wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The chart shows that 25% to 50% are not "capable" of being sold. I think this refers to losses in the field, such as unripe, overripe, insect or animal damage, etc. However, the article ignores the fact that many of the ones that are capable of being sold are never sold.

Is there a different type of pumpkin for pumpkin puree? Or could they not be used as animal feed? And why can't you sell the seeds? The article quotes ~$100/1k seeds. That's $0.10 per seed. There are ~250 seeds per pumpkin - that's $25 per pumpkin. What am I missing?

[deleted]

Re: The economics of pumpkin patches

#65

Post by rp1 »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #31
jjmellon wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The chart shows that 25% to 50% are not "capable" of being sold. I think this refers to losses in the field, such as unripe, overripe, insect or animal damage, etc. However, the article ignores the fact that many of the ones that are capable of being sold are never sold.

Is there a different type of pumpkin for pumpkin puree? Or could they not be used as animal feed? And why can't you sell the seeds? The article quotes ~$100/1k seeds. That's $0.10 per seed. There are ~250 seeds per pumpkin - that's $25 per pumpkin. What am I missing?

I doubt farmers would buy seeds for $100 / 1k seeds after the first season unless harvested seeds were not viable for planting or if the seeds were some type of specialized hybrid whose license prevented farmers from replanting their own seeds. Both possibilities would exclude selling the seeds for profit.

Re: The economics of pumpkin patches

#66

Post by spookthesunset »

jbay808 wrote: post #54
ip26 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Weight is beautifully simple, but the process of unloading 100lbs of pumpkin to be weighted & loading them back in your cart might be a significant driver of the queue latency. Grocery stores pipeline the unloading & loading steps.

Just roll the wheelbarrow right over an in-floor scale! Subtract the wheelbarrow's own weight, which can be printed on the wheelbarrow itself. Or for something more high tech, put a QR code on the wheelbarrow and you can periodically update its empty weight in the database when it's empty and scan it at checkout. This is basically how it works at my local landscaping store where they sell gravel by weight.

That wheel barrow is probably half full of water bottles, coats, and whatever other random crap the kids needed. Probably a kid in there too!

Re: The economics of pumpkin patches

#67

Post by lathyrus_long »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #31
jjmellon wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The chart shows that 25% to 50% are not "capable" of being sold. I think this refers to losses in the field, such as unripe, overripe, insect or animal damage, etc. However, the article ignores the fact that many of the ones that are capable of being sold are never sold.

Is there a different type of pumpkin for pumpkin puree? Or could they not be used as animal feed? And why can't you sell the seeds? The article quotes ~$100/1k seeds. That's $0.10 per seed. There are ~250 seeds per pumpkin - that's $25 per pumpkin. What am I missing?

As to the seeds, a reputable vendor isn't just starting with any random fruit. Even for an open-pollinated variety, you want large separation distances from other varieties to avoid unwanted cross-pollination, potentially miles. You can also grow indoors, but that's more expensive and requires hand-pollination or introduced pollinators. You also need more careful artificial selection (roguing), to avoid long-term degradation of the genetics.

For an F1 hybrid you need to do all this work to maintain each of the pure lines, and then also do the cross. Once you have the fruit, the seed needs to be separated, dried, perhaps tested for viral, bacterial, or fungal disease, perhaps treated with fungicide, and tested for germination.

Of course a random pumpkin seed will grow with some probability, and the resulting plant will bear some kind of pumpkin. But the cost of high-quality seed is a very small share of the total cost of growing a pumpkin, so it's not a good place to cut corners.

ETA: And the article notes explicitly that those seeds were hybrids. For emphasis, saving seeds from hybrids may or may not be legally permissible, depending on the patent status and any contracts signed, but with very few exceptions it doesn't work--the genetics aren't stable, and the F2 doesn't reliably have the same desirable traits as the F1.

Re: The economics of pumpkin patches

#68

Post by SamBam »

detaro wrote: post #28
tomcooks wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or that's how clickbait articles work

How is the article clickbait? What did you expect based on the headline that you didn't get?

Seriously. It's called "The economics of pumpkin patches," not "10 weird things you didn't know about pumpkins," and it literally discusses the economics of pumpkin patches with actual data.

"Clickbait" now means "an article that sounds interesting to me."

Re: The economics of pumpkin patches

#69

Post by Rastonbury »

paulcole wrote: post #62
Rastonbury wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You were hoping for a survey of where halloween pumpkin buyers buy their pumpkins?

Yes, seems like knowing how many people buy pumpkins at pumpkin patches might be useful information for an article on the economics of pumpkin patches.

Tough luck

Re: The economics of pumpkin patches

#70

Post by tomrod »

th5 wrote: post #17
tomrod wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is my thought process: > - Move your barrow under a camera. Minimum $5k, closer to $25k, to set physical hardware, network, queueing line and instructions > - It would take a picture and through image recognition identify and classify pumpkins based on size. $100k+ capex to get implemented model on hardware, sufficient training samples + training expertise, QA, etc. Ongoing opex for maintenance (sun, weather), m…

@pumpkinman - IMO in regards to business viability it’s just as valuable to see someone’s process of how they came to the conclusion as the conclusion itself

Thanks for the support. I considered the @pumpkinman's complaint quite odd!

To address their primary note directly: I do indeed speak this way when reviewing details and considering hunches on viability. If someone only needs a conclusion then I give them one. Most people legitimately considering something, like creating an ML implementation (something I do all the time) and mapping to business feasibility, benefit by understanding the "why" of a conclusion. That by chance you do not personally benefit is not pertinent. If I have read your comment appropriately, I recommend adopting this interpersonal wisdom: https://xkcd.com/1053/

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