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Wacom drawing tablets track the name of every application that you open

robertheaton.com

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Re: Wacom drawing tablets track the name of every application that you open

#111

Post by m4rtink »

hyperstar wrote: post #98

I recently bought a Wacom tablet, but didn't install any drivers except those that are in the free-software repository of Void Linux, which I suppose don't do this. I wish it were easier in general, though, to find out whether hardware requires proprietary software to function. For example, I'd like to get a document scanner, but, since I don't know of any model that can run on free software, I just do without.

I have MF645C (combined laser printer and scanner) from Cannon and it works perfectly fine (over network) from my Fedora systems without the need to install any proprietary drivers & using the auto discovery system over network.

Other printers and scanners from Cannon might work good as well.

Re: Wacom drawing tablets track the name of every application that you open

#112

Post by redwall_hp »

Someone wrote: post #89
codedokode wrote: post #75

There is a myth that if you are a paying customer then you are not a product. As we see, for more and more companies like Wacom, Microsoft or Apple you are a product no matter if you pay or not. Have some self respect and vote with your wallet against such companies.

I thought the phrase was that, if you’re not paying, you’re the product. “If you’re paying, you’re not the product” doesn’t follow from that.

It's not true anyway, because of FOSS. There are also services that exist to provide a social good without a profit motive; that's why nonprofit designations exist.

That phrase has always seemed like an overly cynical take that normalizes antisocial/exploitive behavior by setting an expectation that free services should exploit the user in the first place.

Re: Wacom drawing tablets track the name of every application that you open

#113

Post by m4rtink »

marcodiego wrote: post #53
tubby12345 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>And this is where I stopped God I'm so sick of these holier than thou Richard Stallman level unrealistic dismissals. This take isn't brilliant - we all, at all times, know that we have the option to not ____ if we so choose. Not unlike how people say things like "well I would just choose not to work at ____". That we often choose otherwise means we can't but. >You should pressure the vendor to correctly support thei…

> >And this is where I stopped > > God I'm so sick of these holier than thou Richard Stallman level unrealistic dismissals. I understand your position, but they correctly support their device on linux, I'm sure they can do it on other OS's. > >You should pressure the vendor to correctly support their devices. > > Cool like by means of a blogpost that makes it to the top of hn that details how annoying the vendor's pr…

Is it actually Wacom maintaining the Linux Wacom drivers or is it community maintained ?

Re: Wacom drawing tablets track the name of every application that you open

#114

Post by [deleted] »

coldacid wrote: post #91
krylon wrote: post #20

The sad thing about this is that there are perfectly valid reasons for Wacom to want certain information, like what hardware do their customers connect the drawing tablets to, what operating systems and applications do they use. This is useful information to have, in the sense that Wacom can choose where to put their resources, what applications to test for, etc. But the very fact they are so damned sneaky about it m…

Mozilla products used to do this, but I don't think they do anymore.

[deleted]

Re: Wacom drawing tablets track the name of every application that you open

#115

Post by woolion »

m4rtink wrote: post #107
woolion wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I spent a few years with a Huion screen tablet (GT-19 series), but pressure sensitivity response was really bad compared to a Cintiq. However we are comparing a 400€ product to one that is about 3K€; second-hand it can trade for under 1K, and then it is a reasonable alternative. With a Huion 1060+ the pressure response felt amazing; however that was on Windows, I never got it to work under Linux. For a hobbyist it is…

AFAIK Wacom drivers on Linux are good & upstream. The various Chinese tablets are much more involved to get running on Linux, if possible at all. Also, being fully open source I don't think the Linux Wacom drivers do any of the shady stuff the Windows ones apparently do.

I only use Linux and indeed, drivers work OOtB and don't require you to sign any privacy policy. Although you don't have the fancy GUI that they have on Windows.

The Huion GT works OOtB with the Wacom drivers. For the 1060+, I tried all the out-of-tree drivers without any luck, but that was about 3 years ago.

https://digimend.github.io/drivers/digimend/tablets/

(support was added in 2018, so now it probably works after minimal work)

Re: Wacom drawing tablets track the name of every application that you open

#116

Post by wtallis »

AshamedCaptain wrote: post #88
tubby12345 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>And this is where I stopped God I'm so sick of these holier than thou Richard Stallman level unrealistic dismissals. This take isn't brilliant - we all, at all times, know that we have the option to not ____ if we so choose. Not unlike how people say things like "well I would just choose not to work at ____". That we often choose otherwise means we can't but. >You should pressure the vendor to correctly support thei…

By the same logic: I'm sick of those that proselytize electric cars, since not everyone has the option. I'm sick of those that proselytize walking/biking to work, since not everyone has the option. I'm sick of those that proselytize recycling, since not everyone has the option. I'm sick of those that proselytize philanthropy, since not everyone has the option. I'm the first one who thinks these small sacrifices are p…

It is possible to promote better alternatives without being smug or taking a holier-than-thou attitude. But you're not going to convince anyone to switch with a comment that presumes your alternative is already the default and that everyone will know what you're talking about, rather than actually name and explain the alternative.

Re: Wacom drawing tablets track the name of every application that you open

#117

Post by wtallis »

jodrellblank wrote: post #61
ivanmontillam wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We could go a bit further with MAC (Mandatory Access Control). Something like SELinux. Properly understood, SELinux can provide rock-solid security. Of course, it's not a replacement of other security software, but it can prevent most of sneaky leakages such as the we had just seen in this post. MacOS doesn't ship with SELinux, but I believe it has something similar.

Can it? (Genuine question). I understand SELinux can block processes from opening network sockets for example, but aren't drivers modules loaded into the kernel and not their own process, so you'd have to block the kernel from doing things or not? Or can SELinux go more granular than that?

When a proprietary/vendor-supplied out of tree driver includes analytics/telemetry/spyware, it's most likely going to be in a userspace component. Such drivers will almost always include at least a userspace configuration tool and often a userspace daemon.

Re: Wacom drawing tablets track the name of every application that you open

#118

Post by jsnell »

krylon wrote: post #20

The sad thing about this is that there are perfectly valid reasons for Wacom to want certain information, like what hardware do their customers connect the drawing tablets to, what operating systems and applications do they use. This is useful information to have, in the sense that Wacom can choose where to put their resources, what applications to test for, etc. But the very fact they are so damned sneaky about it m…

Because for the data to be useful even for totally benign purposes, it probably can't be collected just once. For example, the biggest signal I would try to extract for product purposes is users who open an app, try using the pen, and then give up and continue using it with the mouse instead. You can't get that information by collecting information at install time.

Could you write a trigger in the driver to detect this, and only ask for consent then? Probably not, since that gives you only the numerator without a denominator.

Now, if they really aren't asking at all, that is shady. But asking just once rather than on every interaction seems basically mandatory to get the data needed for product development.

Re: Wacom drawing tablets track the name of every application that you open

#119

Post by numpad0 »

encryptluks2 wrote: post #8

Start voting with your wallet. I think this is specific to Wacom tablets, but there are many vendors that provide Wacom hardware without their specific OS. I wonder if there is a good open source ROM for drawing tablets?

Wacom tablets are special purpose input devices, like Kensington trackballs or 3Dconnecxion SpaceMouse. What is needed is an open source Windows driver.

Possible common choices for pen technologies are {Wacom EMR, Wacom AES, Microsoft Pen Protocol(formerly N-trig), Synaptic(unnamed?), Apple Pencil}. Apple Pencil and AES/MPP are well received on lower ends as well as for non-graphic purposes(especially note taking, where EMR is near unusable), so wallet voting can happen in markets for those, but nothing had replaced Wacom EMR in professional spaces if I understand right. That's why the company gets to keep pathetic 32", 4K, non-HDR, 310 nits, 1000:1 contrast, 98% Adobe RGB display for 4 grand as their absolute flagship product. Apple Pro Display XDR has same size of 32", but is 6K XDR(HDR), with up to 1000 nits brightness, has 1mil:1 contrast, has P3 wide color support, for 5 grand.

Also I think it's worth considering how or where Wacom got this idea. As Wacom EMR pen market used to be a very stagnating space with zero competition until it had been incorporated into 1st- and 2nd-gen Surface only to be replaced by N-trig on Surface 3 onwards, I think it could be argued that it was that influx of capital that caused them realize they could "modernize" this way.

Re: Wacom drawing tablets track the name of every application that you open

#120

Post by woolion »

Someone wrote: post #89
codedokode wrote: post #75

There is a myth that if you are a paying customer then you are not a product. As we see, for more and more companies like Wacom, Microsoft or Apple you are a product no matter if you pay or not. Have some self respect and vote with your wallet against such companies.

I thought the phrase was that, if you’re not paying, you’re the product. “If you’re paying, you’re not the product” doesn’t follow from that.

So is it "with proprietary software you're always the product, but some offer you to pay for the privilege"?
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