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Women are rejecting marriage in Asia. The social implications are serious.

economist.com

21–30 of 217 posts

Re: Women are rejecting marriage in Asia. The social implications are serious.

#21
post #5

[deleted]

Maybe the Philippines and Indonesia don't represent most of Asia, but illegitimacy has become a very obvious problem in the last decade there. The only reason divorce is not more common is because an annulment in the Philippines represents an astronomically prohibitive barrier for most citizens.

Re: Women are rejecting marriage in Asia. The social implications are serious.

#22

"So far, the trend has not affected Asia’s two giants, China and India." It is not fair to label a trend as "Asian" when you need to exclude China and India.

Actually the first trend of delayed marriage age is now very much evidence in India. Working professionals are marrying at quite a late age - 35 for boys and 30 for girls is now very common. This is very quickly going to turn into the rejection of marriage trend mentioned in the article. So in case of India it is only a question of when not if.

Re: Women are rejecting marriage in Asia. The social implications are serious.

#23

Good for them. More people need to reject this archaic sexist tradition. Legal enforcement of the fantasy notion of "true love for life" is damn near barbaric. If you and your partner can swing it, more power to you, but social pressure on others to place themselves into legally binding situations revolving around this notion is something that need to die. In the west (at least the states) these are legally binding a…

Whether or not marriage as an institution is biased against males or females (honestly, it seems to be biased against both) I am always astounded by people who see no value whatsoever in marriage. America is practically founded on capitalism. How can you understand specialization & its benefits, and not see how marriage (well, used to) makes use of it? Yes, if marriage was just about pretending "True Love is real, an…

I don't think that marriage in USA is biased against anyone. But the divorce is HEAVILY biased agains men. For example, more than 70% of divorces are initiated by women, while they also get the custody of the children 90% of the time.

When it comes for child support, it's even worse. If in a family the husband begins to get a lower salary due to the state of the economy, then everybody should/will spend less. But if a divorced father gets a lower salary, "the child's standard of living must not change". Did you earn $200,000 per year pre-divorce, and now you barely can find work for $50,000? Too bad for you, you'll have to get an extra job to be able to pay the same amount of child support. If you fail to pay, you get to jail, but the support payments accumulate, so when you get out you'll be in even more debt, which will land you back in jail, and so on. And of course, this whole time, you will be considered a "deadbeat dad".

BTW, I was shocked to find out that, in some states, men* have to pay lifetime alimony. With all due respect, guys who get married on these terms are insane.

Re: Women are rejecting marriage in Asia. The social implications are serious.

#24
post #22

"So far, the trend has not affected Asia’s two giants, China and India." It is not fair to label a trend as "Asian" when you need to exclude China and India.

Actually the first trend of delayed marriage age is now very much evidence in India. Working professionals are marrying at quite a late age - 35 for boys and 30 for girls is now very common. This is very quickly going to turn into the rejection of marriage trend mentioned in the article. So in case of India it is only a question of when not if.

Makes me wonder of the biological implications for the children to-be-born

Re: Women are rejecting marriage in Asia. The social implications are serious.

#25

Good for them. More people need to reject this archaic sexist tradition. Legal enforcement of the fantasy notion of "true love for life" is damn near barbaric. If you and your partner can swing it, more power to you, but social pressure on others to place themselves into legally binding situations revolving around this notion is something that need to die. In the west (at least the states) these are legally binding a…

Whether or not marriage as an institution is biased against males or females (honestly, it seems to be biased against both) I am always astounded by people who see no value whatsoever in marriage. America is practically founded on capitalism. How can you understand specialization & its benefits, and not see how marriage (well, used to) makes use of it? Yes, if marriage was just about pretending "True Love is real, an…

You can "handle things as a team" without bringing into bring into the equation the full force of a modern judiciary system and a stone-age property rights system.

Re: Women are rejecting marriage in Asia. The social implications are serious.

#26
post #7

Good for them. More people need to reject this archaic sexist tradition. Legal enforcement of the fantasy notion of "true love for life" is damn near barbaric. If you and your partner can swing it, more power to you, but social pressure on others to place themselves into legally binding situations revolving around this notion is something that need to die. In the west (at least the states) these are legally binding a…

Just curious -- how does this mindset handle having kids that grow up in a loving and positive environment?

It is an unrelated topic.

Re: Women are rejecting marriage in Asia. The social implications are serious.

#27
post #22

"So far, the trend has not affected Asia’s two giants, China and India." It is not fair to label a trend as "Asian" when you need to exclude China and India.

Actually the first trend of delayed marriage age is now very much evidence in India. Working professionals are marrying at quite a late age - 35 for boys and 30 for girls is now very common. This is very quickly going to turn into the rejection of marriage trend mentioned in the article. So in case of India it is only a question of when not if.

Where are you pulling that data from? The Article makes no mention of average marrying age for Indians. Anecdotally,as a middle class Indian - I see average marrying age for Males around 27-30 and for females 25-28.

And again, Indian values are quite different from Japanese, Chinese or Thai values.

Re: Women are rejecting marriage in Asia. The social implications are serious.

#28
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just curious -- how does this mindset handle having kids that grow up in a loving and positive environment?

It is an unrelated topic.

Let me clarify- you are saying that children are unrelated to marriage?

Re: Women are rejecting marriage in Asia. The social implications are serious.

#29
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the proof is...? How about, more crime might mean less marriage? I know it's not about Asia, but: http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/08/05/us-work-couples-pr... "London School of Economics sociologist Catherine Hakim's research shows that when both paid work and unpaid duties such as housework, care and voluntary work are taken into account, men do pull their own weight."

Now hold on there. Just because the employed member of the family puts in 60+ hours per week at the office doesn't mean they should do any less work around the house...

Whaaat? So are you basically saying that one shold do half of the house chores no matter how much he/she works at their job? If one spouse is unemployed, and the other spouse works 60 hrs you consider it fair only when each does 50% of the house work?

Re: Women are rejecting marriage in Asia. The social implications are serious.

#30
post #19
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do what they do in other civilized countries like France... allow non-marriage unions: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacte_civil_de_solidarité The union isn't just for same-sex couples, but also for non-standard families like say siblings w.o parents and such... it would be perfect as it eschews traditional mores and keeps the good part of marriages.

Sorry let me explain -- I'm not talking about a lack of marriage, but lack of a stable union. The incentive to "give up" is so much stronger when you can just leave when (not "if") life's ubiquitous unpredictable and uncontrollable difficulties arise. So naturally there's a much greater chance of not having that positive environment...

And what I'm saying is that the PACS (the french civil union) is actually a very strong contract, just not bound up with traditional titles and roles like {husband=breadwinner,wife=homemaker}. In fact today, over 95% of civil unions in France are heterosexual couples:

"Although originally intended for same-sex couples, currently in France the majority of couples taking advantage of its law are now heterosexual couples who for one reason or another choose civil union rather than marriage, and that more heterosexual couples are opting for civil union rather than marriage. In fact, this trend was already in place in 2000, with 75% of unions between heterosexual couples (42% the previous years) and 95% in 2009."

If these folks didn't have the stability of an enforceable social contract (and tax benefits), most probably wouldn't marry either.

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