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Women are rejecting marriage in Asia. The social implications are serious.

economist.com

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Re: Women are rejecting marriage in Asia. The social implications are serious.

#11

Post by sliverstorm »

burgerbrain wrote: post #3

Good for them. More people need to reject this archaic sexist tradition. Legal enforcement of the fantasy notion of "true love for life" is damn near barbaric. If you and your partner can swing it, more power to you, but social pressure on others to place themselves into legally binding situations revolving around this notion is something that need to die. In the west (at least the states) these are legally binding a…

Whether or not marriage as an institution is biased against males or females (honestly, it seems to be biased against both) I am always astounded by people who see no value whatsoever in marriage.

America is practically founded on capitalism. How can you understand specialization & its benefits, and not see how marriage (well, used to) makes use of it?

Yes, if marriage was just about pretending "True Love is real, and the world is full of roses and daisies!" it would be a ridiculous sham. But as I have come to see it, it is more about facing the world as a "team". In larger groups (that is to say, extended family, all composed of marriage links), perhaps even as a "tribe"... think about that.

(Not to mention, kids are a thing we kind of need as a species, and I think most everyone is familiar with the plight of single parents)

Re: Women are rejecting marriage in Asia. The social implications are serious.

#12

Post by bobo888 »

diN0bot wrote: post #2

"Japanese women, who typically work 40 hours a week in the office, then do, on average, another 30 hours of housework. Their husbands, on average, do three hours." "Marriage socialises men: it is associated with lower levels of testosterone and less criminal behaviour. Less marriage might mean more crime."

And the proof is...? How about, more crime might mean less marriage?

I know it's not about Asia, but: http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/08/05/us-work-couples-pr...

"London School of Economics sociologist Catherine Hakim's research shows that when both paid work and unpaid duties such as housework, care and voluntary work are taken into account, men do pull their own weight."

Re: Women are rejecting marriage in Asia. The social implications are serious.

#13

Post by bbq »

burgerbrain wrote: post #3

Good for them. More people need to reject this archaic sexist tradition. Legal enforcement of the fantasy notion of "true love for life" is damn near barbaric. If you and your partner can swing it, more power to you, but social pressure on others to place themselves into legally binding situations revolving around this notion is something that need to die. In the west (at least the states) these are legally binding a…

Like everything else, it's good to have diversity. Like you say, it is too socially and possibly legally costly to discuss openly other arrangements. The pressures need to relax to allow other lifestyles blossom.

It's not about being able to talk about it on the Internet or with friends. Imagine the hacker who has a business and unusual lifestyle. Can she be open with it without fear of judgment from investors and the community? I like to think she can, but I'm not so sure. Even if so, does that hold on a more general level?

Re: Women are rejecting marriage in Asia. The social implications are serious.

#14

Post by xsmasher »

aik wrote: post #7
burgerbrain wrote: post #3

Good for them. More people need to reject this archaic sexist tradition. Legal enforcement of the fantasy notion of "true love for life" is damn near barbaric. If you and your partner can swing it, more power to you, but social pressure on others to place themselves into legally binding situations revolving around this notion is something that need to die. In the west (at least the states) these are legally binding a…

Just curious -- how does this mindset handle having kids that grow up in a loving and positive environment?

Is marriage a requirement or a guarantor of a loving and positive environment?

Re: Women are rejecting marriage in Asia. The social implications are serious.

#16

Post by sliverstorm »

bobo888 wrote: post #12
diN0bot wrote: post #2

"Japanese women, who typically work 40 hours a week in the office, then do, on average, another 30 hours of housework. Their husbands, on average, do three hours." "Marriage socialises men: it is associated with lower levels of testosterone and less criminal behaviour. Less marriage might mean more crime."

And the proof is...? How about, more crime might mean less marriage? I know it's not about Asia, but: http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/08/05/us-work-couples-pr... "London School of Economics sociologist Catherine Hakim's research shows that when both paid work and unpaid duties such as housework, care and voluntary work are taken into account, men do pull their own weight."

Now hold on there. Just because the employed member of the family puts in 60+ hours per week at the office doesn't mean they should do any less work around the house...

Re: Women are rejecting marriage in Asia. The social implications are serious.

#17

Post by sliverstorm »

thevivekpandey wrote: post #15

"So far, the trend has not affected Asia’s two giants, China and India." It is not fair to label a trend as "Asian" when you need to exclude China and India.

What would you label it as then? SingaJapaTaiwaVietnian?

Besides, you can always argue that the trend simply hasn't penetrated the larger entities yet, but will in the future.

Re: Women are rejecting marriage in Asia. The social implications are serious.

#18

Post by bbq »

sliverstorm wrote: post #11
burgerbrain wrote: post #3

Good for them. More people need to reject this archaic sexist tradition. Legal enforcement of the fantasy notion of "true love for life" is damn near barbaric. If you and your partner can swing it, more power to you, but social pressure on others to place themselves into legally binding situations revolving around this notion is something that need to die. In the west (at least the states) these are legally binding a…

Whether or not marriage as an institution is biased against males or females (honestly, it seems to be biased against both) I am always astounded by people who see no value whatsoever in marriage. America is practically founded on capitalism. How can you understand specialization & its benefits, and not see how marriage (well, used to) makes use of it? Yes, if marriage was just about pretending "True Love is real, an…

"But as I have come to see it, it is more about facing the world as a "team". In larger groups (that is to say, extended family, all composed of marriage links), perhaps even as a "tribe"... think about that."

I agree! Why do those links have to be marital? I'm not sure they have to be. Which is why the we need to be more open.

Re: Women are rejecting marriage in Asia. The social implications are serious.

#19

Post by aik »

r00fus wrote: post #10
aik wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just curious -- how does this mindset handle having kids that grow up in a loving and positive environment?

Do what they do in other civilized countries like France... allow non-marriage unions: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacte_civil_de_solidarité The union isn't just for same-sex couples, but also for non-standard families like say siblings w.o parents and such... it would be perfect as it eschews traditional mores and keeps the good part of marriages.

Sorry let me explain -- I'm not talking about a lack of marriage, but lack of a stable union. The incentive to "give up" is so much stronger when you can just leave when (not "if") life's ubiquitous unpredictable and uncontrollable difficulties arise. So naturally there's a much greater chance of not having that positive environment...

Re: Women are rejecting marriage in Asia. The social implications are serious.

#20

Post by aik »

xsmasher wrote: post #14
aik wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just curious -- how does this mindset handle having kids that grow up in a loving and positive environment?

Is marriage a requirement or a guarantor of a loving and positive environment?

Sorry let me explain -- I'm not talking about a lack of marriage, but lack of a stable union. The incentive to "give up" is so much stronger when you can just leave when (not "if") life's ubiquitous unpredictable and uncontrollable difficulties arise. So naturally there's a much greater chance of not having that positive environment...
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