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13-Year-Old Makes Solar Power Breakthrough by Harnessing the Fibonacci Sequence

inhabitat.com

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Re: 13-Year-Old Makes Solar Power Breakthrough by Harnessing the Fibonacci Sequence

#131

Post by anamax »

waterlesscloud wrote: post #12
pigbucket wrote: post #9

Inhabitat credits treehugger.com as its source. Treehugger's article is not breathless about biomimicry, not spread over two pages, and not interrupted by adsense and images. http://www.treehugger.com/files/2011/08/13-year-old-makes-so... Edit: The source of treehugger's article is Aidan's own article, which is better still, and addresses briefly some of the issues raised in comments here (e.g., about fixed vs. track…

Last paragraph sums up the possible advantages- Aidan wrote: "The tree design takes up less room than flat-panel arrays and works in spots that don't have a full southern view. It collects more sunlight in winter. Shade and bad weather like snow don't hurt it because the panels are not flat. It even looks nicer because it looks like a tree. A design like this may work better in urban areas where space and direct sunl…

> The tree design takes up less room than flat-panel arrays

The tree takes up less "floor area", but it takes up considerably more volume because it is significantly taller. That's why, in most places, you probably don't want to replace large panels with a single tree, but with a forest of mini-trees.

Trees also have a "concentration of weight" problem, which can be an issue for roof-top installations. The entire weight of the tree is on its trunk, which has a lot smaller cross-section than a comparable panel. Roofs that can handle weight that is spread out often have problems with concentrated weight. Again, the solution is a forest of mini-trees.

Note that the optimal spacing for solar-panel mini-trees is different from tree spacing in nature because nature's trees aren't just trying to optimize energy collection, they're also trying to crowd out their neighbors.

Re: 13-Year-Old Makes Solar Power Breakthrough by Harnessing the Fibonacci Sequence

#132

Post by taliesinb »

pigbucket wrote: post #36
martinkallstrom wrote: post #26

Wait... so there is a reason trees look like that? This was awesome, all the more for being a discovery by a 13-year old kid.

Exactly. In fact, the guy didn't discover that trees branch according to the Fibonacci sequence (which was long known) but rather began his investigation by asking, Why the Fibonacci sequence? Then he hypothesized that it optimized the gathering of sunlight for photosynthesis. Then he tested the hypothesis with a new pv array.

http://www.wolframscience.com/nksonline/page-410#previous has something to say about how the golden ratio can pop out without being encoded directly in plant phylotaxis.

Re: 13-Year-Old Makes Solar Power Breakthrough by Harnessing the Fibonacci Sequence

#133

Post by toyg »

Anti-Ratfish wrote: post #30
RobertHubert wrote: post #22

Cant get much better than millions of years of try and die I guess. Mother nature is pretty crazy! We should copy her work more often :)

Ponder that when you have impacted wisdom teeth. Teeth are a good argument against intelligent design as well!

Actually the "technology" behind wisdom teeth is quite smart. How many organisms feature resources timed to "spring" 20 or 30 years from birth, to replace lost "components"?

You experience them as painful because your teeth don't rot as they used to; until the XX century, it was common for people to lose many of their teeth by the age of 30, so they were grateful for an extra set. They'd probably be dead before 45 anyway, so just a few would suffice to chew your way through the last years of your life.

Re: 13-Year-Old Makes Solar Power Breakthrough by Harnessing the Fibonacci Sequence

#134

Post by djb_hackernews »

anamax wrote: post #131
waterlesscloud wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last paragraph sums up the possible advantages- Aidan wrote: "The tree design takes up less room than flat-panel arrays and works in spots that don't have a full southern view. It collects more sunlight in winter. Shade and bad weather like snow don't hurt it because the panels are not flat. It even looks nicer because it looks like a tree. A design like this may work better in urban areas where space and direct sunl…

> The tree design takes up less room than flat-panel arrays The tree takes up less "floor area", but it takes up considerably more volume because it is significantly taller. That's why, in most places, you probably don't want to replace large panels with a single tree, but with a forest of mini-trees. Trees also have a "concentration of weight" problem, which can be an issue for roof-top installations. The entire wei…

Just because it's shaped like a tree doesn't mean it has to have a central trunk.

However, mini trees are probably better for aesthetics, weather, maintenance, etc.

Re: 13-Year-Old Makes Solar Power Breakthrough by Harnessing the Fibonacci Sequence

#135

Post by godarderik »

run4yourlives wrote: post #120
colanderman wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh I get the point. I hope he reads my message because that's the kind of feedback he needs, not the deluge of "oh you're so smart for a kid!" comments he's probably getting. (Disclaimer: I get paid to teach engineering to precocious youngsters part of the year. I'm quite familiar with the demographic.)

I hope you realize then that there is much more to teaching than telling a child - no matter how precocious - "pfft, that ain't so great." Being an asshole is never excusable. While I understand your point about not over-praising, this actually is something that few of his peers are able to do. Proper praise for the boy would be to appreciate the effort, applaud his commitment to the problem and recognize that he may…

As a 15 year old programmer myself, I would much rather have some constructive criticism than another "oh, you're so smart for your age" comment. I think this type of feedback would be infinitely more valuable for him.

Re: 13-Year-Old Makes Solar Power Breakthrough by Harnessing the Fibonacci Sequence

#136

Post by techiferous »

hencq wrote: post #54
pigbucket wrote: post #9

Inhabitat credits treehugger.com as its source. Treehugger's article is not breathless about biomimicry, not spread over two pages, and not interrupted by adsense and images. http://www.treehugger.com/files/2011/08/13-year-old-makes-so... Edit: The source of treehugger's article is Aidan's own article, which is better still, and addresses briefly some of the issues raised in comments here (e.g., about fixed vs. track…

The kid's own article is great. He explains all the steps he went through and the things he learned along the way. He learned about history, biology, the scientific method while doing something that interested him. Props to his parents and/or teachers who stimulated him to go through with this. I don't think his 'invention' is that revolutionary. If you don't want your solar panels to overlap, it makes sense to choos…

Most (nearly all?) inventions aren't revolutionary in their novelty but are just an increment above what already existed. So I'm agreeing with you but want to make sure the inventiveness of this kid is not understated--especially since I think the intelligence demonstrated in his article is above that of a typical US college graduate.

Re: 13-Year-Old Makes Solar Power Breakthrough by Harnessing the Fibonacci Sequence

#137

Post by ebzlo »

tomp wrote: post #48
sankalpk wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to Wikipedia ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photovoltaic_system#Tracking_th... ): "tracking systems can increase viable output by up to 100%...For large systems, the energy gained by using tracking systems outweighs the added complexity (trackers can increase efficiency by 30% or more)" The new tree design can make 20%-50% more electricity. Wouldn't know till they do some legitimate tests but it seems like…

Why compare the designs, when you can combine them? I'm sure that the tree design can be improved a lot more, by just slightly turning the "leaves" so that they face the sunlight more directly.

I am willing to wager the suggested "combined" design would produce a very similar results anyway. The tree design is likely not necessary if the panels are moving.

Re: 13-Year-Old Makes Solar Power Breakthrough by Harnessing the Fibonacci Sequence

#138

Post by WiseWeasel »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #86
uvdiv wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Basically the tree of cells are arranged in different angles so that as the sun moves some of them will always be receiving optimal sunlight when their normal is parallel with that of the incident light." Except it's trivially impossible to generate more energy like this (as he claims)! If a set of solar panels is independent and non-interacting (e.g., they don't shade or heat each other), then their total power out…

Cool analysis. Doesn't it make sense that an empirical test would not reach a theoretical max? For instance you've discounted shade effects as where he went wrong. Maybe its exactly the shade issue that makes his findings significant. Every urbanite will have to deal with it, and his array may do a better job in intermittent shade. If mass-distributed, most folks would not be optimizing anything - install-and-forget…

The shade issue implied by the parent post is that the tree configuration was mounted in a generally less shady position, as the Fibonacci-configured panels were located significantly further from the ground than the classic configuration. It is possible that the test was set up in a manner that puts the classic configuration at a disadvantage.

To control for that effect, the two panel configurations should be mounted at an equal average distance from the ground, and their positions swapped in different test runs.

Re: 13-Year-Old Makes Solar Power Breakthrough by Harnessing the Fibonacci Sequence

#139

Post by jseliger »

techiferous wrote: post #136
hencq wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The kid's own article is great. He explains all the steps he went through and the things he learned along the way. He learned about history, biology, the scientific method while doing something that interested him. Props to his parents and/or teachers who stimulated him to go through with this. I don't think his 'invention' is that revolutionary. If you don't want your solar panels to overlap, it makes sense to choos…

Most (nearly all?) inventions aren't revolutionary in their novelty but are just an increment above what already existed. So I'm agreeing with you but want to make sure the inventiveness of this kid is not understated--especially since I think the intelligence demonstrated in his article is above that of a typical US college graduate.

"Most (nearly all?) inventions aren't revolutionary in their novelty but are just an increment above what already existed."

This is true. If you're interested in the history of invention, try Steven Berlin Johnson's "Where Good Ideas Come From." Fascinating book, lots of depth, much recommended.

Re: 13-Year-Old Makes Solar Power Breakthrough by Harnessing the Fibonacci Sequence

#140

Post by spodek »

jseliger wrote: post #139
techiferous wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most (nearly all?) inventions aren't revolutionary in their novelty but are just an increment above what already existed. So I'm agreeing with you but want to make sure the inventiveness of this kid is not understated--especially since I think the intelligence demonstrated in his article is above that of a typical US college graduate.

"Most (nearly all?) inventions aren't revolutionary in their novelty but are just an increment above what already existed." This is true. If you're interested in the history of invention, try Steven Berlin Johnson's "Where Good Ideas Come From." Fascinating book, lots of depth, much recommended.

And James Burke's amazing series "Connections" and "The Day The Universe Changed."

One of the best shows I've ever seen.

It's on Youtube. Here's the first link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcSxL8GUn-g

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