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Prague's Brutalist Buildings

calvertjournal.com

41–50 of 122 posts

Re: Prague's Brutalist Buildings

#41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I tend to agree that brutalist is sometimes an excuse for ugly, even you gotta admit that most of the pictures in the article are quite stunning.

The thing is, quite a lot of those things look better when photoed from a distance and much less so when you actually need to walk around them in your daily life. I used to live next to two rather famous Brutalist buildings. One of them was actually kept in good order and the original architect seemed not to be outright enemy of mankind. It still had a score of problems, but well. The other one was beyond ugly; it wa…

>> seemed not to be outright enemy of mankind

Isn't it incredible that people who had so much hate of their fellow man were allowed to design entire environments for people to spend their lives in? And that we were actually taught about this as a "movement" in school, as if it were just a natural extension of modernism?

Re: Prague's Brutalist Buildings

#42
post #37

A long time resident of Prague. I hate this shit. All of it. If there ever was an architecture designed to squeeze the soul out of you, spit on it, curb-stomp it AND, to add insult to injury, age like milk in absence of proper maintenance, this is it. The modern glass-and-steel architecture is "only" soulless in comparison.

> A long time resident of Prague. Same here. I love it. I find it gorgeous in "wow look at the scale of things that humanity can do, if we set our mind to it". It makes me think of spaceships. The grey provides backdrop for greenery, of which there is a lot in Prague, especially now in fall when trees turn all colors each of them striking (the winter looks the worst here I think). It gives me the same vibe as Nordic…

To be honest, I am more at peace with brutalist buildings in Ostrava, the city I was born in.

There are more trees around them and the city itself is pretty rugged, a former heavy industry center with corresponding soul, so to say. Even though the "sorela" in Poruba is actually nicer. (Early 1950s style, very specific, sort-of socialist Baroque.)

But Prague used to have, and partly still has, a different soul, so the combination feels inorganic, especially close to the center.

Re: Prague's Brutalist Buildings

#43
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they are stunning because they are so ugly. Looking at pictures once is one thing and living or working there is another thing. Add the unwanted associations with the totalitarian regime... I have to admit that I am in favor of destroying them and replacing them with something nicer wherever possible. I respect that beauty is in the eye of the beholder; just my $0.02.

The totalitarian association is what makes them so fucked up. The architects themselves had no true intention of making "art" - they were embodying evil, actually broadcasting and embedding evil into everyday life, for no reason other than pure hatred of the basic human needs in everyday life. They hated their own kind. And anyone who celebrated them, even as a cerebral exercise was evil as well. There are certain bu…

> The architects themselves had no true intention of making "art" - they were embodying evil, actually broadcasting and embedding evil into everyday life, for no reason other than pure hatred of the basic human needs in everyday life. They hated their own kind.

??? Of course not. They probably thought they were building happy communities under the glorious sun of communism. Unfortunately they were tragically wrong (on both their buildings and their economical system)

Re: Prague's Brutalist Buildings

#44
post #37

A long time resident of Prague. I hate this shit. All of it. If there ever was an architecture designed to squeeze the soul out of you, spit on it, curb-stomp it AND, to add insult to injury, age like milk in absence of proper maintenance, this is it. The modern glass-and-steel architecture is "only" soulless in comparison.

> A long time resident of Prague. Same here. I love it. I find it gorgeous in "wow look at the scale of things that humanity can do, if we set our mind to it". It makes me think of spaceships. The grey provides backdrop for greenery, of which there is a lot in Prague, especially now in fall when trees turn all colors each of them striking (the winter looks the worst here I think). It gives me the same vibe as Nordic…

Mm, this makes me miss tramping through the snow to walk into a warm wooden bar, sit down for a beer and a big plate of food. There's something special about that in Prague. I lived a few winters in France (Avignon, and some villages) - but there's a certain magical feeling in Prague when you get off a tram and walk through a silent, snowy street and find yourself in a loud, bright, warm cellar, with good cheer.

Re: Prague's Brutalist Buildings

#45

A long time resident of Prague. I hate this shit. All of it. If there ever was an architecture designed to squeeze the soul out of you, spit on it, curb-stomp it AND, to add insult to injury, age like milk in absence of proper maintenance, this is it. The modern glass-and-steel architecture is "only" soulless in comparison.

Brutalist architecture is often beautiful, but it certainly wasn't designed for people, but rather as a monuments to the ego of the architect. I visited one of Le Corbusier's "creations" once (this one: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cit%C3%A9_radieuse_de_Marseill... ) Soul-crushing is indeed the only thing I could think of while there. [EDIT]: Here's a good article on function vs form: https://www.currentaffairs.org/…

Good grief, that first CA article reads like a reactionary "good old genteel days" with a central villain Eisenman.

Modern architecture is a response to scaling demands of modern life.

The CA article is analog of a geek blog lamenting good old genteel days of "Majestic monolithic Simple Client Server structures and interfaces harmoniously coexisting with bandwidth limited sys admins when developers happily were ignorant of most things outside of the function boundary", "but now we have these bare, soulless, micro-services which have turned the sector into glorified janitors maintaining poorly designed architectures ("pigeon shit", "dev-ops").

What has been a challenge, and C. Alexander did not meet this challenge, is how do we maintain a sensitive contextual approach to building (things) at the required scales (huge) with the desired economic characteristics, at the required scale. That's the problem. The meta-physical b.s. that architects engage it is precisely that: b.s. to fill the theoretical hole that has existed in architecture from day 1 (beyond: this here device orders space) which results in dragging in Jung and Derrida and the rest of the jaw boning gangs.

If you or the authors of that CA piece have clues on how to build n beautiful hospitals like that postcard picture for 7 billion people using the skills and tools available, have at it!

--

p.s. btw, if you grep the CA article for "class", you get 6 hits on 'classical', but 0 on societal class, and class dynamics. A bit of digging on internet, for example, can locate gorgeous modern health-spas in say Switzerland for the uber-rich, which I assure you, very much take "the feelings of the occupant" into account, using very modern forms.

And then we can ask the questions:

Does architecture favor a specific class?

Does modern architecture fail for the super rich? I don't believe that is the case.

Are the environments built for super rich in modern age soul-less?

Would a modern LEGO approach to creating nuovo "classical" old towns with standard parts somehow magically remove the inherent difficulties of modern life because we are all now living in cookie cut architectural disney worlds?

And most importantly, will the pigeons shit on neo-classical structures, yes or no?

Re: Prague's Brutalist Buildings

#46
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The totalitarian association is what makes them so fucked up. The architects themselves had no true intention of making "art" - they were embodying evil, actually broadcasting and embedding evil into everyday life, for no reason other than pure hatred of the basic human needs in everyday life. They hated their own kind. And anyone who celebrated them, even as a cerebral exercise was evil as well. There are certain bu…

> The architects themselves had no true intention of making "art" - they were embodying evil, actually broadcasting and embedding evil into everyday life, for no reason other than pure hatred of the basic human needs in everyday life. They hated their own kind. ??? Of course not. They probably thought they were building happy communities under the glorious sun of communism. Unfortunately they were tragically wrong (o…

Interestingly, the short-lived "sorela" style (SOcialistic REALism) was much less brutal and more esthetically pleasing

https://www.google.com/search?q=sorela

One of the main drivers of later Soviet Bloc architecture was relentless uniformization and centralization of industry. By far the fastest way to churn out apartments was to standardize a few typical panels, produce them en masse and cover the entire country in just a few types of buildings.

Re: Prague's Brutalist Buildings

#47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many of the brutalist buildings, perhaps not those in the USSR, are designed with humans very much in mind. Many of the issues that have been with life in brutalist builds are down to them being frequently used for social housing. Placing a large number of relative poor people, drug users, people with mental health problem and a myriad of other issues in the same place will cause trouble regardless of the building ty…

Well, what is the causality there? Communist countries were not as socially stratified as the West is now. In a Czechoslovak "panelák" (block of flats), doctors, professors, waiters and diggers lived side by side. But the extreme growth of vandalism and alienation in this type of living was readily apparent by the 1980s. Lifts reeked of urine, graffiti was on every wall, glass panes were broken and trash receptacles…

> A hypothesis like "very bad architecture can damage humans psychologically" should not be dismissed out of hand

That wasn’t really my point either. We need to sort out which builds are damaging to human mental well being and which havevtrouble humans living in them.

My point was just that we can’t just dismis a build style, because some of the builds happened to be filled with trouble people. Some would still have had issues if we had put the in luxery appartments.

Re: Prague's Brutalist Buildings

#48
My "favorite" brutalist building in the CR is the department store on old town square in Olomouc. It's so wildly and incredibly out of character with everything else around, it's like a space ship landed across from the orloj and somehow nobody noticed.

Re: Prague's Brutalist Buildings

#49
I like a lot of brutalist buildings. If I could, I would build a brutalist building for my home. I have my truly amateur drawings ready. Given that I have 0 education as an architect or civil engineer it would probably collapse before it was ever finished.

I am only aware of one brutalist private dwelling in Oslo, there might be more.

Another was planned but that is a long story, and it was not approved in the end.

Most brutalist buildings have some character and they cannot be ignored

I fully understand that the brutalist esthetics is lost for most people.

According to Wikipedia we are now in the postmodern phase of architecture. The example buildings form makes me think that a lot of the world has not made it that far yet.

Buildings being erected over the past 20 years all seem to be rectangular boxes. If they want to be fancy its glass and steel. Extremely generic. Some try to make up for it by having a lobby with a ridiculously high ceiling.

The open space is not used for anything creative or anything at all really. The huge empty space speaks for itself.

I highly prefer the brutalist era. If nothing else, it is less boring.

Re: Prague's Brutalist Buildings

#50
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they are stunning because they are so ugly. Looking at pictures once is one thing and living or working there is another thing. Add the unwanted associations with the totalitarian regime... I have to admit that I am in favor of destroying them and replacing them with something nicer wherever possible. I respect that beauty is in the eye of the beholder; just my $0.02.

The totalitarian association is what makes them so fucked up. The architects themselves had no true intention of making "art" - they were embodying evil, actually broadcasting and embedding evil into everyday life, for no reason other than pure hatred of the basic human needs in everyday life. They hated their own kind. And anyone who celebrated them, even as a cerebral exercise was evil as well. There are certain bu…

I don't think that's true for all brutalist architecture, otherwise how could you explain its presence in the UK and other countries where there was no communist regime?

Here is a good video about it: https://youtu.be/VGwVAxRHxgM

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