The metaverse is bullshit • Hacker News Board

Re: The metaverse is bullshit

#71

Post by dandotway » Sat, Oct 30, 2021, 6:43 AM UTC

Text is mightier than the Metaverse.

Kids can do video calls with their smartphones but prefer texting.

We could discuss Hacker News stories with video chat but we prefer text.

News and politics junkies prefer reading text tweets on Twitter to watching talking news anchors.

Once upon a time Amazon was a company that only sold books. Dried ink on dead trees. And in the early internet age this book seller outperformed many more "forward looking visionary" startups.

Billions and billions spent on making movies as polished as possible, yet "I thought the book was better" is what we always hear.

The Metaverse will be programmed with text.

The quarterly reports outlining its financial losses will be written in text.

When journalists ultimately write its obituary, they will write text.

Re: The metaverse is bullshit

#72

Post by watercooler_guy » Sat, Oct 30, 2021, 6:44 AM UTC

zemo wrote: post #45

watercooler_guy wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Zuckerberg did state, for this interview back in July ( https://www.theverge.com/22588022/mark-zuckerberg-facebook-c... ), that > ...just like you have the W3C that helps set standards around a bunch of the important internet protocols and how people build the web, I think there will need to be some of that here, too, for defining how developers and creators can build experiences that allow someone to take their avat…

sure he says that but what they’re doing is the opposite. They’re not releasing standards, they’re not making the equivalent of a cgi-bin server that lets me run my own simulation that someone can transit to from someone else’s simulation, they’re not releasing a high quality client that can target simulations owned by other companies, etc. They say people can make spaces but it’s very Geocities. Sure, people can mak…

but isn't it good that the standards aren't coming from Facebook, but rather will have to come from a more neutral source? I also wouldn't expect a big corp to be the one to create open standards for the rest of the community.

The way I see it, Facebook kicking off the push towards a metaverse is kind of like Bell Labs creating Unix. Sure it took a big corp with a lot of money, but that gives the rest of the community something to emulate and build off of, or decide what parts they do and don't like, and so eventually we'll have the metaverse equivalent of Linux. (edited for clarity of the first paragraph)

Re: The metaverse is bullshit

#73

Post by cgriswald » Sat, Oct 30, 2021, 6:45 AM UTC

Jasper_ wrote: post #52

> In a September 2021 Washington Post interview, Tim Sweeney imagined the future of advertising. "A carmaker who wants to make a presence in the metaverse isn't going to run ads," he said. "They're going to drop their car into the world in real time and you'll be able to drive it around. And they're going to work with lots of content creators with different experiences to ensure their car is playable here and there,…

Instead of watching a professional driver smoothly going around a switchback, you sit in first person POV in a car that feels, handles, and accelerates better and faster than the real thing. It even cheats to make you feel like you're a better driver—that the car makes you a better driver. You probably won't buy it on the spot, but you could; the car as an impulse buy right at the peak of your high. Even if you don't, now when you see that car on the road, you associate those good memories with the car. Maybe you even go in for a test drive of the real thing.

Why would anyone want to do that rather than fly? Why would I rather play Gran Turismo when I can be Iron Man in LEGO Marvel Superheroes?

Re: The metaverse is bullshit

#74

Post by Jasper_ » Sat, Oct 30, 2021, 6:45 AM UTC

modeless wrote: post #64

Jasper_ wrote: post #52

> In a September 2021 Washington Post interview, Tim Sweeney imagined the future of advertising. "A carmaker who wants to make a presence in the metaverse isn't going to run ads," he said. "They're going to drop their car into the world in real time and you'll be able to drive it around. And they're going to work with lots of content creators with different experiences to ensure their car is playable here and there,…

> why the heck am I driving a car around? I can fly, can't I? By this logic nobody should play Gran Turismo because a Superman game exists. > You can't test legroom or the seat cushions, because your avatar doesn't don't have a body. So I don't see how you can realistically sell an actual real-world car, because isn't most of its function and design unnecessary in the metaverse? By this logic it's pointless to make a…

I'd say a sizable majority play Gran Turismo because it's a fun test of skill -- learning the controls of an intricate machine, the layout of the game's tracks, and achieving some form of mastery over it. And I'm also sure some people play it for the fantasy of doing car racing in a safe environment, which is a very dangerous, expensive, and inaccessible sport for a lot of people.

So, perhaps I misread Tim Sweeney's point of view, but it seems like it starts and ends with "put cool car in metaverse, drive it down Main St., everyone stops and stares, like that one scene from Snow Crash. Or Ready Player One."

If it's more specific than that, "put cool car in video game, in metaverse" product placement, well we already have that today. Mercedes Benz already did a whole Mario Kart thing [0], and countless other racing games like the Forza series have sponsorships from real car companies. So that's not really anything novel for the metaverse, it's just the same product placement marketing strategy that's already existed. Tim Sweeney is basically saying "hey, look, this is the future, you can put your car in a video game" to Mercedes, who has already been doing this for years.

> By this logic it's pointless to make a website to promote your car because you can't test the car by visiting the website.

Pretty much all of these websites have a call-to-action for "Schedule a test drive at your local dealership". Hell, I remember an entire campaign from a major car corporation that was to the tune of "anybody can watch a TV commercial, but driving it is believing"

[0] https://www.theverge.com/2014/5/29/5760538/drive-a-mercedes-...

Re: The metaverse is bullshit

#75

Post by d3nj4l » Sat, Oct 30, 2021, 6:46 AM UTC

> Please submit the original source. If a post reports on something found on another site, submit the latter.

From the guidelines. Here is the original source: https://www.pcgamer.com/uk/the-metaverse-is-bullshit/

I use (and love) Outline myself wherever it works, but linking to the original source is much better IMO.

Re: The metaverse is bullshit

#76

Post by redisman » Sat, Oct 30, 2021, 6:47 AM UTC

emodendroket wrote: post #66

wokwokwok wrote: post #43

the good news is that the metaverse and the tech industry's very expensive obsession with trying to make it a reality will be a schadenfreude generator the likes of which we've never seen before The tech landscape is littered with failed attempts, but we have here two very technically successful companies, Epic and Facebook, both trying to re-imagine the internet as something different. I'm not sure I'd write them of…

I find it hard to see much of a serious case for NFTs, but I mostly agree with what you're saying. Even if it is a "schadenfreude generator," Amazon's attempts at having third-party sales on their site with "zshops" were a laughing stock until they weren't.

We’re seeing only the first iteration of NFTs. Gaming can be interesting. Like if WoW had some unique Legendaries in NFT form I think that would be interesting and lucrative. I’m not sure if the incentive is there for existing games because you’re giving away control of the economy. But for upstarts they can use this as a way to get players to try their game instead since you could maybe sell some of the items for real money one day

Re: The metaverse is bullshit

#77

Post by Animats » Sat, Oct 30, 2021, 6:48 AM UTC

So far, we have three basic "metaverse" approaches.

1. Augmented reality, that is, overlays on the real world. A cross between Pokemon Go and Google Glass. The Facebook version of this would probably look like that "Hyperreality" video I mention too often. This is all too likely to happen, if only to free up the hands of people who walk through the world staring at their phones. John Carmack expects it as soon as the headgear gets down to eyeglass size.

2. Virtual reality, that is, some simulated place you can visit. This may or may not involve headgear. This is really Second Life with better frame rates, or VRchat with a bigger world. It's striking that the newer metaverse wannabees have far lower visual quality than either of those. Roblox is the technical leader in this area, with a strong R&D team and a good technical roadmap. Unfortunately, their market is centered at age 13, so they censor very heavily. Holding hands is prohibited.

3. Virtual scarcity, that is, NFTs and land in virtual worlds. This is way overhyped. I expect the SEC to come down hard on a lot of that stuff soon, like they did with the ICO crowd in 2018. Selling NFTs for sports team collectables is probably OK. Selling virtual land before you build your virtual world is clearly a security, per the Howey test. The collectable NFT stuff peaked months ago. That works like Beanie Babies on eBay - $5000 asked, no bids, actual sales around $50. It turns out that OpenSea was front-running and Beeple's big sale was not arms-length. Same old scams, shiny new packaging.

I'm into the technical end of #2. This is a rather lonely place right now, even in the game development community. There are interesting problems to be solved in building large-scale virtual worlds with high-detail user content. That's not impossible, although many people think it is. (Plug: See [1] for a demo.) The number of people actually doing anything of technical interest, as opposed to blithering about the "metaverse", is surprisingly small. I haven't even found a serious forum where such issues are discussed. I've read about a hundred of My First Metaverse Article at this point, though.

[1] https://vimeo.com/640175119

Re: The metaverse is bullshit

#78

Post by narrator » Sat, Oct 30, 2021, 6:49 AM UTC

modeless wrote: post #64

Jasper_ wrote: post #52

> In a September 2021 Washington Post interview, Tim Sweeney imagined the future of advertising. "A carmaker who wants to make a presence in the metaverse isn't going to run ads," he said. "They're going to drop their car into the world in real time and you'll be able to drive it around. And they're going to work with lots of content creators with different experiences to ensure their car is playable here and there,…

> why the heck am I driving a car around? I can fly, can't I? By this logic nobody should play Gran Turismo because a Superman game exists. > You can't test legroom or the seat cushions, because your avatar doesn't don't have a body. So I don't see how you can realistically sell an actual real-world car, because isn't most of its function and design unnecessary in the metaverse? By this logic it's pointless to make a…

VR is great for video games, sure. What if I don't like video games though?

Re: The metaverse is bullshit

#79

Post by bosawq » Sat, Oct 30, 2021, 6:49 AM UTC

Jasper_ wrote: post #52

> In a September 2021 Washington Post interview, Tim Sweeney imagined the future of advertising. "A carmaker who wants to make a presence in the metaverse isn't going to run ads," he said. "They're going to drop their car into the world in real time and you'll be able to drive it around. And they're going to work with lots of content creators with different experiences to ensure their car is playable here and there,…

Forget about what other people who have nothing in common with you do.

Its a trap to focus on it. Many have resources, energy and no sense, taste or imagination. You cant blame them. Its like complaining to a cactus for not producing strawberries. Or yelling at swampland for not turning fertile.

What you can do is shift focus, and focus on what you and people like you are working on, and keep the focus there no matter what.

Re: The metaverse is bullshit

#80

Post by noduerme » Sat, Oct 30, 2021, 6:49 AM UTC

noduerme wrote: post #60

[Removed by my better self]

Now that I'm reading the rest of it, I see his point and he's not stupid. But yes, it does matter who runs it and how it looks and no, second life isn't the fuckin metaverse although it was a really, really nice attempt that he dismisses out of hand as being 'centralized'. Well guess what's centralized now? No, most people don't get a vastly wider experience because the web is so much more than a central 'verse these days. The problem is that the vision they're all locked into is so petty, generic, short sighted and dull.