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Architect Resigns in Protest over UCSB Mega-Dorm

independent.com

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Re: Architect Resigns in Protest over UCSB Mega-Dorm

#321

Post by helen___keller »

b20000 wrote: post #265

The cost of housing needs to be brought down in California via regulation. This could be done by no longer permitting commissions on the sale of real estate for example and by only allowing for a small fixed fee in a transaction, e.g. $500. One of the main problems with the rising cost is the realtors who constantly jack up the price artifically.

> his could be done by no longer permitting commissions on the sale of real estate for example and by only allowing for a small fixed fee in a transaction, e.g. $500. One of the main problems with the rising cost is the realtors who constantly jack up the price artifically.

Nonsense, the sellers' agent does not own the property and the buyers agent does not put up the money to purchase it. They are facilitating a large transaction of money between two wealthy parties. Those two wealthy parties still exist, and still want to transact properties, even if you take out the middle man that facilitate the transaction.

Re: Architect Resigns in Protest over UCSB Mega-Dorm

#322

Post by colinmhayes »

wpietri wrote: post #231
graeme wrote: post #3

Interesting collision of the idea with the covid era. During an outbreak you’d want students to have a private airspace to go to and the possibility of ventilation. Update: from another comment, Munger designed a similar building in Michigan. It has great reviews! But, one of the top ones was “great until pandemic”. Adding this to clarify that, contra other comments, I don’t necessarily think Munger was mistaken. But…

Wow, some of the quotes here: "Good luck surviving seasonal depression or maintaining your slowly failing eyesight, especially during a pandemic and you should not be spending long periods in common spaces, when 95% of the rooms in Munger have NO WINDOW" "It can be a huge problem for people to live in because normally people would feel very uncomfortable living in a room without windows, and you don't even have a saf…

I wouldn't say the housing market in Ann Arbor has a fair bit of choice. The vast majority of undergrads live in frat style 7+ bedroom houses. There really aren't a huge number of 1 or even 2 bedroom apartments available, and what does exist is either incredibly run down or 2k+ a month in a high rise building that grad students can't afford.

North campus has better 1/2 bed options, but only engineering and art students would be there.

Re: Architect Resigns in Protest over UCSB Mega-Dorm

#323

Post by dragonwriter »

mindcrime wrote: post #91

From my point-of-view as a former firefighter, I would say this: A building meant to house 4500 students, with only two entrances? There's a word for that: deathtrap. Building this is setting UCSB up to be the site of the next Triangle Shirtwaist Factory fire[1], Station Nightclub fire[2], or Hamlet Chicken Processing Plant fire[3]. At a first glance, based only on the information provided in the article, I'd say tha…

> From my point-of-view as a former firefighter, I would say this:

> A building meant to house 4500 students, with only two entrances?

I would think that, you being a former firefighter, you’d know that exits (for regular use and, even more so, emergency exits) are not the same thing as (are generally a superset of) entrances.

The plans for the building [0] show 10 escape stairs with dedicated exits (including the four which also have doors onto the two main entrance lobbies for regular use) and dozens of additional first-floor exit doors.

> One of those details would be the presence of a sprinkler system. IF local building codes require sprinklers in dormitories

State building codes in California have for new construction for more than 30 years (heck, California has, for a decade, required them for new single family homes, too.)

If the resigning architect could have plausibly raised the argument “this building will either get everyone killed in a fire or never be allowed by the fire marshal to be occupied because it flagrantly breaks the most basic fire code requirements”, they probably would have led with that rather than fuzzy social and psychological concerns.

[0] https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Gb5DVYUPyNj2JYla5B_dL4-Ke-j...

Re: Architect Resigns in Protest over UCSB Mega-Dorm

#324

Post by dqpb »

Munger Hall, more like Munger Hell!

I feel claustrophobic even if I’m in windowed room where the windows don’t open.

You basically have to cross your fingers and pray that the HVAC system is superb and will remain superb indefinitely and without fail.

Oh well, I guess this is fitting on many levels - it’s a reflection of the psychological boxes universities shove their students into, it’s an extension of how California promises utopia and then delivers dystopia, and it’s an example of the weakened minds and resolve of Santa Barbarans.

Re: Architect Resigns in Protest over UCSB Mega-Dorm

#325

Post by mrweasel »

notRobot wrote: post #17

No windows? No natural light whatsoever? That's gotta have a serious negative impact on the mental health (and possibly sleep patterns?) of the students. Not to mention that in case of a fire, all the people rushing to the two exits will get into a stampede, and those who remain in their rooms will suffocate, with no windows to open for fresh air or to be rescued from? This is the most dystopian thing I've heard of i…

Even in the US having living quarters with no windows must be illegal. It’s dumb enough that people are allowed to work in offices with no windows, but this has to be illegal.

Re: Architect Resigns in Protest over UCSB Mega-Dorm

#326

Post by AnthonyMouse »

kixiQu wrote: post #261
ajross wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You are assuming a lot about whether the safety designs exist, or are adequate. Uh, yes. Because there are laws governing how we can construct buildings in a safe way, and on the whole (c.f. the number of deaths in building fires over time) they work well. So I trust them. As far as the putative logic flaw, I don't see it. Everything is a tradeoff, even "because money". Saving money on the dorm means lower tuition,…

Laws work together with norms. The norms of architecture that mandate e.g. windows for living spaces are here being violated so extremely someone's stepping down over it. This is therefore not an average project. Concern seems reasonable.

The concern is especially strong here because of the nature of the building.

In an ordinary apartment building, if you build it stupid, people won't want to live there. Then the landlord won't want to build it that way to begin with and if some fool does it anyway there will be a profit incentive to knock down the building and do it again.

This is a dorm. At at state school. The normal market forces aren't there. The landlord isn't going to be motivated by losing money. The tenants aren't in an ordinary market because dorms are often subsidized or have unique zoning that allows for lower cost than is legally permissible in other available housing and are likely to be closer to the school than other available housing. So you have to exceed a higher threshold of terrible before people will abandon them.

Re: Architect Resigns in Protest over UCSB Mega-Dorm

#327

Post by nescioquid »

randcraw wrote: post #291
ajross wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You are assuming a lot about whether the safety designs exist, or are adequate. Uh, yes. Because there are laws governing how we can construct buildings in a safe way, and on the whole (c.f. the number of deaths in building fires over time) they work well. So I trust them. As far as the putative logic flaw, I don't see it. Everything is a tradeoff, even "because money". Saving money on the dorm means lower tuition,…

This design came from an amateur architect, someone who has never designed ANY building before and is surely clueless about safety laws and even basic physical structural limits. To imagine the design has seen anywhere sufficient review by others who DO know what they're doing is assuming a lot. All this just to save $200/1500 (13%)? You can get a better discount than that at any retailer.

While the story was about the architect's resignation, there's got to be a story here. Why would the school spend a billion dollars and tie its hands like this (circumventing its own review process and providing input for needed changes) to get a 200 million "gift"?

Did the university believe it couldn't otherwise house 4500 students for a billion dollars? Were there considerations involved other than student housing?

Re: Architect Resigns in Protest over UCSB Mega-Dorm

#328

Post by p_j_w »

joachim4 wrote: post #273
ajross wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely building codes mandate a comprehensive evacuation design. There are clearly aesthetic complaints many people will have here, but realistically safety shouldn't be a problem. This is simply not a "large" building by skyscraper standards, and those can be built safely. Honestly... I think this is very much a taste thing. Is it so weird that I don't think this looks so bad at all? Yeah, yeah, no windows. But dens…

Not having natural light is one of the best way to attack your mental health. This building is just a bad design, and human are not made to live without natural lights.

I wish architects showed the same level of concern for office workers!

Kidding aside... given the size of the bedrooms, I get the impression that the students aren't meant to spend much time there aside from whatever amount of sleep college students are getting these days. The rest of their time would probably be spent in common areas that actually do have sunlight. Recalling my personal experience in college, where most of my time was already spent in common areas anyways, I don't see the lack of bedroom windows as that huge a problem.

This particular dorm design also seems to allow for more privacy than a traditional dorm does.

Re: Architect Resigns in Protest over UCSB Mega-Dorm

#329

Post by depaya »

ctdonath wrote: post #86
krembanan wrote: post #5

Are there no laws against this in the U.S? In Norway there are building codes that prohibits bedrooms without a real window.

Are such laws necessary? if you want to not live there, don't.

We need laws to save people from themselves and from being taken advantage of.

If fire codes were not a thing, developers would build terrible fire traps and people would rent them. There would inevitably be many deaths; this has happened all throughout history prior to modern building codes (and of course still happens today[1]).

The free market is a lie and impossible; you cannot expect the common person to be an expert on everything. We need (and you should want) baseline standards to ensure a reasonable quality of life for our society - think automobile safety standards and building codes.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grenfell_Tower_fire

Re: Architect Resigns in Protest over UCSB Mega-Dorm

#330

Post by sjg007 »

mindcrime wrote: post #91

From my point-of-view as a former firefighter, I would say this: A building meant to house 4500 students, with only two entrances? There's a word for that: deathtrap. Building this is setting UCSB up to be the site of the next Triangle Shirtwaist Factory fire[1], Station Nightclub fire[2], or Hamlet Chicken Processing Plant fire[3]. At a first glance, based only on the information provided in the article, I'd say tha…

It will have sprinklers that’s the code now.
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