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Architect Resigns in Protest over UCSB Mega-Dorm

independent.com

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Re: Architect Resigns in Protest over UCSB Mega-Dorm

#311

Post by mattmcknight »

randcraw wrote: post #291
ajross wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You are assuming a lot about whether the safety designs exist, or are adequate. Uh, yes. Because there are laws governing how we can construct buildings in a safe way, and on the whole (c.f. the number of deaths in building fires over time) they work well. So I trust them. As far as the putative logic flaw, I don't see it. Everything is a tradeoff, even "because money". Saving money on the dorm means lower tuition,…

This design came from an amateur architect, someone who has never designed ANY building before and is surely clueless about safety laws and even basic physical structural limits. To imagine the design has seen anywhere sufficient review by others who DO know what they're doing is assuming a lot. All this just to save $200/1500 (13%)? You can get a better discount than that at any retailer.

> This design came from an amateur architect, someone who has never designed ANY building before and is surely clueless about safety laws and even basic physical structural limits. To imagine the design has seen anywhere sufficient review by others who DO know what they're doing is assuming a lot.

This is false statement. The architectural design was provided by Van Tilburg, Banvard, & Soderberg, AIA.

Re: Architect Resigns in Protest over UCSB Mega-Dorm

#312

Post by pdpi »

ajross wrote: post #290
vmception wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're assuming those laws are adequate. I wrote that the first time. It's a bad idea, you trust them just because the catastrophes haven't happened. For the next few weeks in your day to day, look at how many emergency exits are disarmed or blocked or locked, look at how many other inspectable things just aren't inspected, like when the last elevator inspection occurred on the ones you use. We're trying to save peop…

> You're assuming those laws are adequate. This is getting toward conspiracy theory territory. It's... a building code. Yes. Yes, I tend to trust building codes that have been keeping all of us safe in our homes and offices for the better part of a century. If building codes don't work, then where are the disasters in all the other buildings? You're saying that every other building in the USA in the 20th century "jus…

Nothing conspirational about it. In the follow up to the Grenfell fire[1], my development was reviewed and the cladding in use on several buildings was found… less than ideal. The homeowner’s association is currently drafting a plan to have it replaced.

This isn’t some theoretical, conspiracy-laden issue. It’s an actual problem.

1. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grenfell_Tower_fire

Re: Architect Resigns in Protest over UCSB Mega-Dorm

#313

Post by zackmorris »

gt565k wrote: post #28

Glad he had the balls to step down and call them out. The other committee members and people in charge of the project should be embarrassed as they failed to represent the best needs of the university and its students. Windowless dorms, crazy 97 year old billionaire amateur architect and a bunch of corrupt university staff and committee members who would do anything to save a few bucks. What could go wrong? Humanity…

Ya I've been thinking about this too, that personal shame needs to play a bigger role today.

For example, if I designed a cell phone that wasn't waterproof, I would feel a tremendous sense of personal shame as an engineer.

If I took a campaign contribution and voted against the people I my district, I would feel a tremendous sense of personal shame as an elected official.

And so on and so forth. This lack of transparency, accountability, critical thinking, personal responsibility, professionalism, etc has given us this bizarro world 21st century reality where one rich guy can soil the lives of countless others in a seemingly impeccable way. To name one undesired outcome of this local optimum in the multiverse of possible realities..

Edit: $200 million is nothing to sneeze at, so nothing against Charlie Munger for that. I do wish though that philanthropists would donate without strings attached, or else it ends up being an extension of their egos.

Re: Architect Resigns in Protest over UCSB Mega-Dorm

#314

Post by ethbr0 »

randcraw wrote: post #291
ajross wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You are assuming a lot about whether the safety designs exist, or are adequate. Uh, yes. Because there are laws governing how we can construct buildings in a safe way, and on the whole (c.f. the number of deaths in building fires over time) they work well. So I trust them. As far as the putative logic flaw, I don't see it. Everything is a tradeoff, even "because money". Saving money on the dorm means lower tuition,…

This design came from an amateur architect, someone who has never designed ANY building before and is surely clueless about safety laws and even basic physical structural limits. To imagine the design has seen anywhere sufficient review by others who DO know what they're doing is assuming a lot. All this just to save $200/1500 (13%)? You can get a better discount than that at any retailer.

I think you're overreading the amateur architect angle.

Presumably, they didn't say "Hi, Charlie Munger, please draw up a building for us on a napkin."

It's in fact a barb that Munger is a non-practicing architect, and apparently ruffled feathers with the professional architect on the committee.

Which, from working with some prima donna architects, I am both unsurprised and unsympathetic about.

Building engineers ensure everything is to code. Architects fret about whether it looks and feels right.

Some architects are good at making livable spaces, but an architecture degree doesn't guarantee that, and a lack of one doesn't preclude it.

Re: Architect Resigns in Protest over UCSB Mega-Dorm

#315

Post by JackFr »

praptak wrote: post #18
Saint_Genet wrote: post #4

"The idea was conceived by 97-year-old billionaire-investor turned amateur-architect Charles Munger, who donated $200 million toward the project with the condition that his blueprints be followed exactly." Absolutely amazing

We really need a way to protect ourselves against what the rich are doing to the rest of us.

Well, in this case (and frankly many others) simply saying "No" would be the best start.

Re: Architect Resigns in Protest over UCSB Mega-Dorm

#316

Post by [deleted] »

graeme wrote: post #3

Interesting collision of the idea with the covid era. During an outbreak you’d want students to have a private airspace to go to and the possibility of ventilation. Update: from another comment, Munger designed a similar building in Michigan. It has great reviews! But, one of the top ones was “great until pandemic”. Adding this to clarify that, contra other comments, I don’t necessarily think Munger was mistaken. But…

[deleted]

Re: Architect Resigns in Protest over UCSB Mega-Dorm

#317

Post by advisedwang »

mchusma wrote: post #258

I love this building concept. Affordable housing is critical, and the structure of grouping the rooms together is a great fit for the college lifestyle. Having your own room is pretty awesome versus bunk beds (my college experience). There is nothing bad about this that I can see. If you don't want to live there, don't do it. But describing this as some kind of hellscape is way off the mark.

> If you don't want to live there, don't do it

There are going to be some students with no choice. With 4500 units there, it's going to be an essential part of UCSB's housing.

Re: Architect Resigns in Protest over UCSB Mega-Dorm

#318

Post by canaus »

InitialLastName wrote: post #242
rglullis wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> These 4500 kids in their sardine rooms will have multiple food options, probably several gyms, rec rooms, libraries, etc... all "down the hall". No better way to get kids prepared for what comes ahead in their adulthood, huh?

To be fair, that sounds like any of the cookie cutter "luxury" apartment complexes I see coming up all over the place, right down to the inability to see anything other than your neighbors out the window.

How many "cookie cutter 'luxury' apartment complexes" do you know that house 4500 people? Let's forgo the absolute number, what about the population density?

94% of the residents won't have windows. Can you list any of these apartments that have that characteristic?

Re: Architect Resigns in Protest over UCSB Mega-Dorm

#319

Post by ethbr0 »

bobthepanda wrote: post #280
kixiQu wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Laws work together with norms. The norms of architecture that mandate e.g. windows for living spaces are here being violated so extremely someone's stepping down over it. This is therefore not an average project. Concern seems reasonable.

It‘s strange that this isn‘t a law. Everywhere where I‘ve lived in the US, windows are required in a room with a bed. I can‘t imagine it wouldn‘t be very pleasant, as an example, someone smoking weed inside a dorm next to me without a way to vent it out.

Afaik, most windows in newer, high-density commercial buildings are non-functional.

It's difficult to design a large window, that will also open, that also insulates sufficiently to hit modern energy efficiency certifications.

Re: Architect Resigns in Protest over UCSB Mega-Dorm

#320

Post by ghaff »

g051051 wrote: post #102

I love parts of it (the small single occupancy rooms), but I'd hate having those common areas right outside every door (especially that TV), one bathroom for 8 people, etc. The odds of at least one inconsiderate jerk (not cleaning, stealing food, being loud, etc.) in every "pod" is probably close to 100%.

The dorm I lived in undergrad had a variant of that common area arrangement--though rooms had windows and they weren't all singles. I definitely preferred it to the anonymous corridor approach. Not to defend this particular design for a number of reasons, but having a variety of rooms clustered around shared spaces is pretty common: https://capitalprojects.mit.edu/projects/new-residence-hall
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