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GitHub Copilot available for JetBrains and Neovim

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Re: GitHub Copilot available for JetBrains and Neovim

#431

Post by minusSeven »

capableweb wrote: post #389
minusSeven wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Almost everyone does search like that, its not about doing something but about finding best and easiest way to do something.

If you mainly deal with 1-3 languages on a daily basis that you have mastered, you don't routinely search for "How do I do xyz in P". Maybe if you're a junior or intermediate developer, or have a poor memory. But doing that frequently is a clear indicator that mastery have yet to been achieved. It's not wrong or bad to search for help, but it doesn't indicate mastery of the language you're using.

Knowing a language or a tool doesn't mean you will always know the best or the smartest way to do something. This is not necessarily a test of your programming ability. And best practise is more often ever changing. Almost every language or tool is always ever changing and improving itself which best practise also keeps evolving.

Secondly you don't necessarily need to know or master a language or tool for every kind of work. You can just choose to learn as you go along with it, in which case knowing how to search and use the most effective way to do something is very useful.

Re: GitHub Copilot available for JetBrains and Neovim

#432

Post by gremlinsinc »

b215826 wrote: post #299
baby wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you try it? Because I've been using it for weeks and it makes me read these types of comments as "I don't understand the value of the internet" or "what's the purpose of owning a phone". It's night and day if you have it enabled or not. There's just no question about the value proposition once you start using it. I mean, you can tell comments here from people who have actually been using it, and people who have n…

> Because I've been using it for weeks and it makes me read these types of comments as "I don't understand the value of the internet" or "what's the purpose of owning a phone". And yet apart from making this very inaccurate comparison you haven't made any argument for why such a thing as Copilot would be useful to anyone. How do you personally find Copilot useful? And why do you think someone whose job demands more t…

you can sometimes just tap enter, inside a model or another file (in a framework like Laravel for example), and it'll literally guess the entire function. at the most If you just make a comment about what the function should do, or name the function something sensible it'll get the whole function maybe 58% of the time, and when it's wrong there's other options to choose from and one might get you 90% to the end goal, and just need a few modifications.

I've used kite, and tabnine and loved tabnine, but this is something different and way more like magic. I can't explain how, it just feels like it's reading my brain as I type..

Re: GitHub Copilot available for JetBrains and Neovim

#433

Post by throwaway675309 »

rectang wrote: post #71
snvzz wrote: post #63

Still no way to opt your code out of this. Disgusting.

Legally, it needs to be opt-in in order to protect downstream consumers of code written by Copilot. Copilot sometimes reproduces code verbatim. You can't use open source code except under the terms of the license. Authors whose code may be reproduced by Copilot need to grant a license to downstream consumers, and republishers of Copilot-generated code need to adhere to the terms of that license. Copilot is inserting…

How much of the code needs to be "unique" across a single codebase for copilot to be illegally pasting it downstream ?

For a great deal of copilot insertions, it's like the equivalent of me writing the sentence, "the man gasped in surprise" in a novel I'm working on. Yeah maybe that sentence came from somebody else's novel, but you can find the same damn sentence in a thousand other books/papers/etc as well.

Re: GitHub Copilot available for JetBrains and Neovim

#434

Post by throwaway675309 »

ghoward wrote: post #412
anigbrowl wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Frankly, I think it's on you to lay out your argument in full rather than assume everyone is privy to your thought process. You seem to coming at this as if the law is a purely mechanistic thing that can quickly resolve disputes, overlooking how these things play out in the real world, like Oracle v google going on for a decade or the even longer litigation involving SCO and IBM. I mean, what makes you so sure the co…

> Frankly, I think it's on you to lay out your argument in full rather than assume everyone is privy to your thought process. No, it's on you to not assume you know everything about my thought process before I show you otherwise. Could I have communicated better? Yes. But I didn't assume you knew everything about my thought process. I thought it wasn't necessary for you too until you assumed that you knew my argument…

If Microsoft noticed that a substantial number of contributors were putting in these "Poisoned Well license restrictions" in their repositories, it would be relatively trivial to automatically filter out those code bases using some basic heuristics to determine if the license was biased against systems like copilot.

Re: GitHub Copilot available for JetBrains and Neovim

#435

Post by gremlinsinc »

jmnicolas wrote: post #121
netcyrax wrote: post #52

Why are people not bothered by privacy concerns in this case?

I suppose this thing upload your code to Microsoft servers then run some deep learning algos on it and get back to you with suggestions? It also probably keep your code to feed it to the algos. If big tech was trustworthy I would use this with glee. But when I see how the world is turning, I'll continue to type boilerplate by hand (as long I'm allowed).

> I suppose this thing upload your code to Microsoft servers then run some deep learning algos on it and get back to you with suggestions? It also probably keep your code to feed it to the algos.

Be sure you don't commit your code to github...as that's literally uploading your code to Microsoft servers, I mean if you just don't trust them for being 'Microsoft'.

Re: GitHub Copilot available for JetBrains and Neovim

#436

Post by krageon »

tornato7 wrote: post #426
krageon wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a cloud-based code suggestion platform. No corporation with a solid secrecy policy will allow you to use it. For private use; it costs so I prefer just learning the field. What precisely convinced you?

Plenty of corporations trust GitHub itself with their code, why should trusting copilot be any different?

Did you comment on the wrong post?

Re: GitHub Copilot available for JetBrains and Neovim

#437

Post by ghoward »

throwaway675309 wrote: post #434
ghoward wrote: post #412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Frankly, I think it's on you to lay out your argument in full rather than assume everyone is privy to your thought process. No, it's on you to not assume you know everything about my thought process before I show you otherwise. Could I have communicated better? Yes. But I didn't assume you knew everything about my thought process. I thought it wasn't necessary for you too until you assumed that you knew my argument…

If Microsoft noticed that a substantial number of contributors were putting in these "Poisoned Well license restrictions" in their repositories, it would be relatively trivial to automatically filter out those code bases using some basic heuristics to determine if the license was biased against systems like copilot.

And that would be a win for me too.

In fact, I'm really just trying to put them between a rock and a hard place so that I win no matter what.

Of course, if that does happen, I expect more people would want to use my licenses...

Re: GitHub Copilot available for JetBrains and Neovim

#438

Post by truculent »

nfRfqX5n wrote: post #254
truculent wrote: post #199

The comments are so full of praise that I will have to give this an earnest try. But is writing code really the part of software that people are struggling with?

the autocomplete/predictive part of copilot makes writing code faster

so is the speed of writing code really a big issue for you?

Re: GitHub Copilot available for JetBrains and Neovim

#439

Post by f38zf5vdt »

baby wrote: post #355
f38zf5vdt wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a glorified autocomplete to me. It seems like it feeds me mostly things I'd get from searching Stack Overflow. The first day was pretty interesting but the novelty wore off quickly. You still need to grok what it spews out and see if it's correct. And the worst thing about that is that you don't get the context of the Stack Overflow threads, where people discuss the impact of the given solution and alternatives.…

Do you use autocomplete, and would you say that it did a better job than autocomplete? If so why would you disable it?

I use autocomplete, but because of the async API calls it was slower than normal autocomplete.

Re: GitHub Copilot available for JetBrains and Neovim

#440

Post by JohnAaronNelson »

throwaway675309 wrote: post #429
JohnAaronNelson wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you used it? My experience was quite atrocious. Copilot is not auto complete. It’s nonsense. I attempted to use it continuously for three weeks. I tried because I know someone who built it and I wanted to give them the benefit of the doubt. It never prompted me with any code that was useful. It only ever slowed me down and caused me frustration. It’s nothing like Intellisense. It’s just trash.

Could you cite an actual specific example? I have a difficult time believing what you are asserting that it provided absolutely no value at any point - it just sounds like a baseless ad hominem attack. I find that it's fantastic for typescript and JavaScript allowing me to flesh out the completion of basic data object containers class definitions etc. extremely quickly. If I don't remember the exact parameters that y…

https://johnaaronnelson.com/i-cant-anymore-with-copilot/

TLDR; the subtleness of its wrongness destroys my ability to follow my train of thought. I always had to take myself out of my train of thought and evaluate the correctness of the suggestion instead of just writing.

For simple things, intellisense, autocomplete and snippets are far more effective.

For anything more complex, I already know what I want to write.

For exploratory stuff I RTFM

copilot was ineffective at every level for me.

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