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Remote-first work is taking over the rich world – research hints at why

economist.com

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Re: Remote-first work is taking over the rich world – research hints at why

#381

Post by bretthoerner »

jalfresi wrote: post #348
abyssin wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you consider commuting as labour, you’re creating an incentive for many workers to increase the distance between where they work and where they live. Something comparable has happened in Belgium with the system of company cars. A car with fuel card is considered as a standard part of the salary package, which is advantageous from a fiscal perspective. What you get is more traffic, pollution, urban sprawl and more…

"you’re creating an incentive for many workers to increase the distance between where they work and where they live" Having commuted for many many years, I literally cannot fathom how this line of thinking is even considered a reasonable counter. Do some poeple get to commute through a utopic wonderland? Have I been living/working in the wrong places all these years?

The average commute in the US is apparently 27 minutes one-way. That's what people have settled on when they're spending their _own_ time. If you get paid for commute time it incentivizes people to commute even longer so they can get even more square footage per dollar, or whatever they're optimizing for.

Re: Remote-first work is taking over the rich world – research hints at why

#382

Post by jonfw »

sokoloff wrote: post #268
bigwavedave wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the other people in the room are also knowledgeable, you will come to an even better conclusion much faster face-to-face. > In my experience, having "group reasoning" is faster and with better results. Why is face-to-face required for "group reasoning"?

It’s a round-trip latency difference. Standing in the same room, we can get perhaps 100, but certainly 50, responses in an hour from a small group. Video conferencing might be 15% less and that relatively slight difference is already frustrating. In asynchronous written form, it probably takes 3 days to get 100 “turns” and maybe a week or more if there’s timezone “smear”. The written async responses can be higher qua…

If you're a proponent of written communication- you'll argue that 100 'turns' of written communication will have significantly more valuable discussion than 100 turns in a meeting. Most of the turns in a meeting can usually be avoided by a google search beforehand

Re: Remote-first work is taking over the rich world – research hints at why

#383

Post by nicoburns »

sbarre wrote: post #365
quadrifoliate wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One reason I have found real-time communication ineffective is that it favors the narcissists and egoists in the conversation who are comfortable talking over everyone else. Guess what happens in this situation – Bob spends 40 minutes talking out of the hour's meeting about how his way is right, interrupts everyone, and by the end of the hour meeting the boss is saying “Well, why don't we do a proof of concept with B…

Bob sounds pretty annoying, but I would also say that this team has a leadership failure if this is what happens regularly. If I was Bob's manager I would have a clear conversation with him about his behaviour, and I would - at minimum - make sure that everyone on the team has a chance to present their ideas without interruption.

Indeed. And this is also one of the things that would most quickly lead to a firing if the behaviour doesn't change at companies I have worked at (much quicker than poor output).

Re: Remote-first work is taking over the rich world – research hints at why

#384

Post by xcambar »

brightball wrote: post #357
kwertyoowiyop wrote: post #350

> Economists have less insight into why remote workers might be more productive. One possibility is that they can more easily focus on tasks than in an office, where the temptation to gossip with a co-worker looms large. Wow, how out of touch and patronizing is this? How about, it’s hard to concentrate in these cheap open-plan offices where you have to listen to every other conversation in the vicinity?

There’s also out of sight, out of mind pressure.

> out of sight, out of mind

This plus the "make your own schedule" organization that installs itself after the first weeks/months, and you can finally reach the peace of mind one, as an individual, needs to thrive.

That being said, I can understand the reluctance of the management, since they're basically losing control of both time and space of their teams. Which can be quite scary if you're not prepared.

But hey, managerial inertia should be fought if everyone else is happy.

Re: Remote-first work is taking over the rich world – research hints at why

#385

Post by captainredbeard »

quadrifoliate wrote: post #293
fps_doug wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like it's a workaround for dealing with bad co-workers? You can still have these in async communication and others will just give up eventually. And then the guy who gets asked something but doesn't reply until at least two others pester him via phone repeatedly. Assuming you have a well-working team, real-time still seems more efficient to me, at least at my current job.

Great point! I think I briefly mentioned it in my post, but I think that maybe there's three separate categories that I'm talking about. - Real-time communication in person (face-to-face) - Real-time communication remotely - Asynchronous communication remotely The scenario you mention "gets asked something but doesn't reply until at least two others pester him via phone repeatedly” seems to be in the category "Real-t…

Nonsense, asynchronous / remote comm just optimizes for people who live online. They can respond faster leading to an initiative advantage which was previously restricted to “egoists”, as you put it.

Re: Remote-first work is taking over the rich world – research hints at why

#386

Post by vinbreau »

evenhovercraft wrote: post #349

Very grateful that my employer has committed to remaining flexible with remote work. Full time in the office, hybrid, or full time remote. It’s up to the individual. Full time remote has done wonders for my health - instead of a 2 hour commute I get to exercise. Instead of coming home stressed, annoyed, and sitting in front of the TV, I go outside for a solid hour+ after I close my laptop. I travel more liberally now…

I started a new job this year. The employer and our manager have made it clear, IF you feel safe coming into an office once the company declares it safe you can. If you are never comfortable ever again with coming in to the office, you won't have to. They have dedicated themselves to what works best for each employee, zero pressure. Nobody on my team is going in it's been decided.

I am way more productive at home. I have ADHD and the distraction of an office environment is too much and makes it hard for me to concentrate. My productivity has never been higher. I don't dread going to work, I get paid enough that I do not need to find a better place. And I have been a remote worker since 2011 and never, ever want to go back to work in an office.

Re: Remote-first work is taking over the rich world – research hints at why

#387

Post by philk10 »

simonswords82 wrote: post #272
ouid wrote: post #194

What I find offensive is the notion that workers consider a 10-25% increase in hours as commensurate with a 5% pay cut. End commuting. It's unpaid labor.

Sounds like a post from r/antiwork but I do understand your point. In fact, when I was working in London it was doing the maths on my "unpaid labour" at the time which made me quit and start my first business. 1.5 hours each way * 5 days a week = 15 hours a week That's 780 hours a year (not including holidays/sick leave etc) That's 32.5 24 hour days! One whole calendar month sat in my car each year. As soon I did tha…

Snap - I was doing 4 hours each day (combination of car and train) and then add in the frequent train delays and after a year I was looking to move

Re: Remote-first work is taking over the rich world – research hints at why

#390

Post by newsclues »

another-dave wrote: post #331
quadrifoliate wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One reason I have found real-time communication ineffective is that it favors the narcissists and egoists in the conversation who are comfortable talking over everyone else. Guess what happens in this situation – Bob spends 40 minutes talking out of the hour's meeting about how his way is right, interrupts everyone, and by the end of the hour meeting the boss is saying “Well, why don't we do a proof of concept with B…

Maybe we need more structural hurdles than just the agenda — e.g. everyone gets an egg timer that refills more slowly than it empties. You flip it when you start talking.

Need more social cohesion.
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