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Remote-first work is taking over the rich world – research hints at why

economist.com

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Re: Remote-first work is taking over the rich world – research hints at why

#331

Post by another-dave »

quadrifoliate wrote: post #277
nirui wrote: post #210

> ... There is a more intriguing possibility, however. Work that is largely done remotely may be more efficient compared with an office-first model. I don't think in-person real-time communication is always effective. No, I personally think it's one of the least method of communication that can happen in an office environment when the topic gets slightly complex (that is, if the topic is complex enough for you to wri…

One reason I have found real-time communication ineffective is that it favors the narcissists and egoists in the conversation who are comfortable talking over everyone else. Guess what happens in this situation – Bob spends 40 minutes talking out of the hour's meeting about how his way is right, interrupts everyone, and by the end of the hour meeting the boss is saying “Well, why don't we do a proof of concept with B…

Maybe we need more structural hurdles than just the agenda — e.g. everyone gets an egg timer that refills more slowly than it empties. You flip it when you start talking.

Re: Remote-first work is taking over the rich world – research hints at why

#332

Post by cehrlich »

oivey wrote: post #221
nirui wrote: post #210

> ... There is a more intriguing possibility, however. Work that is largely done remotely may be more efficient compared with an office-first model. I don't think in-person real-time communication is always effective. No, I personally think it's one of the least method of communication that can happen in an office environment when the topic gets slightly complex (that is, if the topic is complex enough for you to wri…

On the other hand, for complex topics I’ve found that a face-to-face conversation is often much more effective because it allows both parties to have a rapid back and forth to resolve misunderstandings or gaps in the conversation. Asynchronous communication is poor at this.

I agree.

Discussion in meetings has felt mostly useless to me over the years for the exact reasons that the parent pointed out. On the other hand, some of the best work I've done was at a job where the person I worked with most had the same train ride home as me, so we'd just chat for half an hour 2-3x a week. It allowed both of us to work through ideas, and come to much stronger conclusions.

Re: Remote-first work is taking over the rich world – research hints at why

#333

Post by timezap »

another-dave wrote: post #331
quadrifoliate wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One reason I have found real-time communication ineffective is that it favors the narcissists and egoists in the conversation who are comfortable talking over everyone else. Guess what happens in this situation – Bob spends 40 minutes talking out of the hour's meeting about how his way is right, interrupts everyone, and by the end of the hour meeting the boss is saying “Well, why don't we do a proof of concept with B…

Maybe we need more structural hurdles than just the agenda — e.g. everyone gets an egg timer that refills more slowly than it empties. You flip it when you start talking.

I’m developing a tool along this line of thinking - providing light structure to meetings, currently at https://timezap.io.

Re: Remote-first work is taking over the rich world – research hints at why

#334

Post by llampx »

arp242 wrote: post #328
llampx wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

German and Dutch straightforwardness only goes one way. Try talking to them back with the same straightforward way they talk to you, and see how they react.

Eh? It's how these people interact with each other. Your line of thinking seems to be something like this: 1. *Something straightforward* 2. *Straightforward reply* 3. "Zomg! Hypocrite!"

I use straightforwardness as a proxy for rudeness, which is what it usually is in these cases. Its like the famous "brusque New Yorker" style or "Berliner schnauze". If you talk to them the same way they talk to you they get pissed because this brusqueness is not how they talk to an equal, but rather an outsider.

Re: Remote-first work is taking over the rich world – research hints at why

#335

Post by another-dave »

cblconfederate wrote: post #237

It has been interesting to watch how the attitude of HN crowd about remote work shifted during the pandemic. It used to be a lot more hostile, now it seems like the consensus is positive to it. For people who have been working remote before the pandemic it feels like they are not alone like monks anymore. In the end, work is a verb, not a location where people happen to go. Which ever way we make it happen , it will…

For me I think it boils down to how remote friendly the company is — my current place was already remote first so noticed no real difference to being 100% remote apart from not meeting up for lunch with the one other guy who lived nearby.

But in every other company I've worked, working remotely made you the poor man of the team for meetings etc. "Oh sorry that you can't see the whiteboard on the call, we just want to draw this out".

The shift during the pandemic is that everyone was now remote

Re: Remote-first work is taking over the rich world – research hints at why

#336

Post by llampx »

extr wrote: post #28
jimbob45 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is a “near shore” company?

I'd be curious to know as well, but I'm guessing he means Europe. I used to work with other Data Scientists based in Europe and was always shocked to learn how little they got paid, usually less than 50% of american counterparts. And for work like DS where objectives are more abstract and harder to specify, Europeans have enough cultural and literal fluency to be able to fully replace someone from the US. This is in…

Near-shoring usually refers to someone on the same timezone or nearby physically, like South America or Mexico for the US, or Eastern Europe for Western Europe.

In terms of European talent being paid less, yes I agree they are, but there are hidden costs in terms of taxes and compliance that means that companies would rather go to countries which promise an order of magnitude cheaper resources rather than just 50% off.

Re: Remote-first work is taking over the rich world – research hints at why

#337

Post by hprotagonist »

nobrains wrote: post #308
EliRivers wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it puts an element of asynchronous communication when you have to think of the agenda ahead of time. Oh, the difficultly of getting people to think about things in advance. The number of meetings where it's clear that basically nobody has actually put any thought in, done any research, even read the entire meeting invitation. Meetings become a way to force people to spend time on a topic, and the act of being there w…

I remember reading about a company (maybe Amazon?) where they spend the first minutes of the meeting reading the agenda and other reading pre-requisites for the meeting, then start the actual meeting

one of their few good culture ideas.

Re: Remote-first work is taking over the rich world – research hints at why

#338

Post by ghaff »

EliRivers wrote: post #278
quadrifoliate wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One reason I have found real-time communication ineffective is that it favors the narcissists and egoists in the conversation who are comfortable talking over everyone else. Guess what happens in this situation – Bob spends 40 minutes talking out of the hour's meeting about how his way is right, interrupts everyone, and by the end of the hour meeting the boss is saying “Well, why don't we do a proof of concept with B…

it puts an element of asynchronous communication when you have to think of the agenda ahead of time. Oh, the difficultly of getting people to think about things in advance. The number of meetings where it's clear that basically nobody has actually put any thought in, done any research, even read the entire meeting invitation. Meetings become a way to force people to spend time on a topic, and the act of being there w…

Hallway track and socializing more generally aside, this is one of the advantages of in person events as well. You may dip into an online event for a couple hours and mean to watch some other on-demand video--but I'm guessing most of us never do.

Re: Remote-first work is taking over the rich world – research hints at why

#339

Post by wingkongex »

I work IT, fully remote since March 2020. At first, I was actually against the idea as I had never worked from home full-time before.

Went back to the office for the first time last month to meet a new exec. I could not believe how much more distracted I felt back in the office, and that experience is what 100% sold me on remote work. It is quite easy to forget just how much recreational conversation happens in an open office setting, and I find it hard to believe that people at large would naturally be more productive in that kind of environment.

Re: Remote-first work is taking over the rich world – research hints at why

#340

Post by ghaff »

fps_doug wrote: post #281
tchalla wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> for complex topics I’ve found that a face-to-face conversation is often much more effective because it allows both parties to have a rapid back and forth to resolve misunderstandings or gaps in the conversation. Face-to-Face conversation can also happen remote synchronous.

To me, it sucks. (Video) calls are exhausting and less flexible, and nothing beats having a huge, real whiteboard and three people taking turns refining a diagram or flowchart while discussing it.

It can be. It's also very expensive when people are scattered across multiple states and even multiple countries. Basically no meeting with more than 2 or 3 people I'd likely be in would involve people only in one of my nearby offices.

In addition, while whiteboards can still be nice for certain things, over the past few years I've also come to realize that collaborative docs (e.g. Google Docs) are actually as good or better for a lot of purposes.

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