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Project Gutenberg is no longer fully blocked in Germany

news.ycombinator.com

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Re: Project Gutenberg is no longer fully blocked in Germany

#91

Post by consumer451 »

myohmy wrote: post #76
kmeisthax wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sssh! If you tell foreign courts and litigants about VPNs, they'll stop accepting "we'll block it in your country if you get off our backs" and start demanding international jurisdiction. At that point "it's legal in my country" will no longer suffice for anything online (which is basically everything). Everyone will need to be in compliance with the most restrictive subset of the law. Just in the realm of copyright,…

Hell will freeze over before we get an international court. The US literally has a law on the books to invade the International Criminal Court in the Netherlands if GWB is ever held trial for war crimes (wars of aggression have been a war crime since the end of WW2).

While extremely significant, I don't think that's the only reason. It is possibly even worse and the blame sometimes even falls outside of US borders.

We live in a world largely run by multinational corporations who would prefer to continue operating in a world devoid of multinational jurisprudence.

Re: Project Gutenberg is no longer fully blocked in Germany

#92

Post by ren_engineer »

myohmy wrote: post #76
kmeisthax wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sssh! If you tell foreign courts and litigants about VPNs, they'll stop accepting "we'll block it in your country if you get off our backs" and start demanding international jurisdiction. At that point "it's legal in my country" will no longer suffice for anything online (which is basically everything). Everyone will need to be in compliance with the most restrictive subset of the law. Just in the realm of copyright,…

Hell will freeze over before we get an international court. The US literally has a law on the books to invade the International Criminal Court in the Netherlands if GWB is ever held trial for war crimes (wars of aggression have been a war crime since the end of WW2).

>The US literally has a law on the books

laws can change, I'd personally love to see some of our politicians and military leadership get punished for lying to the American people and the damage they did to entire nations around the world. A lot of people my age feel the same, some of these people better hope they croak before a younger generation can hold them accountable

Re: Project Gutenberg is no longer fully blocked in Germany

#93

Post by kmeisthax »

myohmy wrote: post #76
kmeisthax wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sssh! If you tell foreign courts and litigants about VPNs, they'll stop accepting "we'll block it in your country if you get off our backs" and start demanding international jurisdiction. At that point "it's legal in my country" will no longer suffice for anything online (which is basically everything). Everyone will need to be in compliance with the most restrictive subset of the law. Just in the realm of copyright,…

Hell will freeze over before we get an international court. The US literally has a law on the books to invade the International Criminal Court in the Netherlands if GWB is ever held trial for war crimes (wars of aggression have been a war crime since the end of WW2).

I'm not sure that's relevant, since the Hague Invasion Act[0] only applies to war crimes. There's all sorts of other cases in which the US is perfectly happy with other countries asserting jurisdiction over it's own citizens. The US has signed plenty of extradition treaties that allow other countries access to US citizens who commit acts which are crimes in both jurisdictions[1].

Furthermore, copyright is usually treated as a civil tort; and the US also has processes to domesticate and enforce foreign court orders under US jurisdiction should someone decide to play scofflaw. There's plenty of international cooperation that makes the whole concept of "jurisdiction ends at national borders" null and void.

[0] Not the real name of the act, but this is funnier.

[1] If you're curious, there are countries that object to criminal extradition. Notably, France considers French nationality to constitute immunity to any extradition treaty it signs. Though, they haven't promised to invade countries over it like the US did.

Re: Project Gutenberg is no longer fully blocked in Germany

#94

Post by da_big_ghey »

Maybe stupid question, if PGLAF is based in U.S.A., why not just tell plantiff to piss off and ignore any lawsuit in foreign jurisdiction? If no server is in Germany and no business is conducted in Germany why waste money on this instead of expanding project?

Re: Project Gutenberg is no longer fully blocked in Germany

#95

Post by bpodgursky »

saddlerustle wrote: post #36
miki123211 wrote: post #25

What would have happened if Gutenberg had ignored the German court's ruling? Does Germany have any leverage over an institution that is fully based in the US? If so, does it mean that, as a hypothetical website owner, I need to understand and be compliant with every law in every possible country, or risk fines / imprisonment?

My understanding is it's complicated in the US, but between most other western countries there are treaties allowing foreign judgements to be enforced domestically. >If so, does it mean that, as a hypothetical website owner, I need to understand and be compliant with every law in every possible country, or risk fines / imprisonment? By the letter of the law, yes. The idea of a borderless internet never had specific l…

The US standard is that they will only prosecute (or deport) for crimes which are also a crime in the US.

Re: Project Gutenberg is no longer fully blocked in Germany

#96

Post by wbl »

kmeisthax wrote: post #93
myohmy wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hell will freeze over before we get an international court. The US literally has a law on the books to invade the International Criminal Court in the Netherlands if GWB is ever held trial for war crimes (wars of aggression have been a war crime since the end of WW2).

I'm not sure that's relevant, since the Hague Invasion Act[0] only applies to war crimes. There's all sorts of other cases in which the US is perfectly happy with other countries asserting jurisdiction over it's own citizens. The US has signed plenty of extradition treaties that allow other countries access to US citizens who commit acts which are crimes in both jurisdictions[1]. Furthermore, copyright is usually tre…

The US does not enforce foreign libel judgements unless US courts would reach the same conclusions.

Re: Project Gutenberg is no longer fully blocked in Germany

#97

Post by zinekeller »

pavon wrote: post #82

I'm curious as to what changed PGLAF's mind. Blocking those specific works was all that the court ordered 3 years ago. Blocking everything was PGLAF's own decision based on perceived risk of further lawsuits about other works. Nothing has really changed to decrease that risk. The plaintiffs may have agreed that those are the only works they own that were in violation, and won't sue about anything else, but any other…

Nothing, really. The other party countersued (technically appealed) because they still want to remove the works completely, even though it is pointed out that they are under US soil.

Re: Project Gutenberg is no longer fully blocked in Germany

#99

Post by [deleted] »

heisig wrote: post #4

This is great news! This is a wonderful project, and the fact that it wasn't accessible from Germany made me profoundly sad and angry. I hope the responsible copyright lawyers have a hard time sleeping because of this and consider changing their line of work. If you are blocking people from reading books in the public domain, it is a good indication that you are one of the bad guys. Even worse, they only blocked peop…

[deleted]

Re: Project Gutenberg is no longer fully blocked in Germany

#100

Post by germanier »

bpodgursky wrote: post #95
saddlerustle wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is it's complicated in the US, but between most other western countries there are treaties allowing foreign judgements to be enforced domestically. >If so, does it mean that, as a hypothetical website owner, I need to understand and be compliant with every law in every possible country, or risk fines / imprisonment? By the letter of the law, yes. The idea of a borderless internet never had specific l…

The US standard is that they will only prosecute (or deport) for crimes which are also a crime in the US.

In the other hand, the standard for enforcing civil judgements is much lower.
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