Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Remote-first work is taking over the rich world – research hints at why

economist.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 487 posts

Re: Remote-first work is taking over the rich world – research hints at why

#11

Post by SkyPuncher »

dylan604 wrote: post #6
version_five wrote: post #2

This is really about "at home first" work rather than remote work. The prevailing model seems to be "don't come to the office unless we want you there" as opposed to "work from anywhere". I understand the reasons for why companies want you at home but local rather than remote, just saying it's very different that real remote working.

Why do the reasons for it matter? There's an office for the company and you don't actually do work there. You work remotely for the company vs in-office. The whys do not matter in the definition of you working remotely from the office do they?

There's a subtle, but important difference.

"Work at your home office" culture still expects you to be in a predictable location and working predictable hours. Very similar to showing up to an office everyday.

"Remote" is closer to, "your location doesn't matter as long as you can perform your job".

Re: Remote-first work is taking over the rich world – research hints at why

#12

Post by sklargh »

tl;dr I guess what I'm saying is that even though I'm in the office, having the choice to be there makes all the difference.

I've been going into the office a few days a week because my infant's daycare is nearby and it makes logistical sense. I am also double-vaccinated and wear a real mask with care. On most days I am the only person within 36 feet. I have repositioned myself near an air vent to take advantage of a positive pressure zone around my workspace.

I say this not to argue for the office but against it, I have personal space and I'm making this decision because its a rational one for my family and productivity and carefully mitigate my risks with my behavior. I think I'd immediately be unhappy if my employer compelled people to return, particularly before I am able to vaccinate my infant. In a giant open-plan building, it's suddenly possible to do intense focused work because it's an an appropriate occupancy level.

Re: Remote-first work is taking over the rich world – research hints at why

#13

Post by B4CKlash »

dylan604 wrote: post #6
version_five wrote: post #2

This is really about "at home first" work rather than remote work. The prevailing model seems to be "don't come to the office unless we want you there" as opposed to "work from anywhere". I understand the reasons for why companies want you at home but local rather than remote, just saying it's very different that real remote working.

Why do the reasons for it matter? There's an office for the company and you don't actually do work there. You work remotely for the company vs in-office. The whys do not matter in the definition of you working remotely from the office do they?

It partially dictates how the company communicated with its’ employees. A remote first company is going to engage with its employee base differently, invest in benefits that respect that population more and create channels that enable an optimization of that environment. A non-first organization doesn’t need to necessitate any of that. Oftentimes remote work is the lesser of two evils; the other evil being less competitive in the job market place.

Re: Remote-first work is taking over the rich world – research hints at why

#14

Post by ev1 »

taf2 wrote: post #10
throwaway894345 wrote: post #4

I wonder if the inconvenience posed to corporate America by shitty consumer ISPs will force the latter to improve.

I think it’s not just shitty ISPs it’s also pretty bad corporate VPN or “security” features that really just break the internet for home working people… we encounter one network that is like a proxy of sorts… it times out all connections after like 4 minutes- a really shitty feature for voice applications

I absolutely love when the corporate middleboxes make websockets fail, webrtc fail (which is used by virtually all conferencing software), HTTP3 fail, HTTP2 fail, QUIC fail, long lived connections drop automatically

Re: Remote-first work is taking over the rich world – research hints at why

#15

Post by ramesh31 »

sydthrowaway wrote: post #9
ramesh31 wrote: post #8

Just got approved for permanate remote last week. The thought of going back to a multi-hour commute and having my physical location dictated by a job just sounds absurd at this point. Never again.

Could you share which company?

Not at liberty to post PII, but we operate many web properties you've heard of.

TBH, they've been really fantastic about everything from the very beginning of covid. I think as more large companies get on board with this, we're reaching a tipping point where the B tier organizations are starting to realize they can use remote as a powerful bargaining chip to lure talent away from FAANG.

Most companies don't need the "intensive in-person collaboration", or whatever nonsense reasoning that FAANG is using to avoid full remote. They just need skilled efficient engineers to churn out CRUD work and move Jira tickets, which can be done from anywhere with minimal interaction.

Re: Remote-first work is taking over the rich world – research hints at why

#16

Post by lastofthemojito »

version_five wrote: post #2

This is really about "at home first" work rather than remote work. The prevailing model seems to be "don't come to the office unless we want you there" as opposed to "work from anywhere". I understand the reasons for why companies want you at home but local rather than remote, just saying it's very different that real remote working.

There are so many different flavors of remote (and remote-ish) work. Lots of people (especially those who don't do remote work) think of remote work as "work wherever you want, whenever you want", but in reality there are often limitations.

Employers generally care about what jurisdiction you live in so they can comply with tax law, etc. Some employers don't care where you're at as long as your long-term residence is in one of their approved jurisdictions. Some will keep tabs on your location and pay you differently depending on where you live.

Some employers mandate a set of core hours, while others limit employee home locations by time zone, wanting workers to be approximately on the same schedule.

I've heard of some US Government workers who are allowed to work from home, but only from home. Ostensibly for cybersecurity reasons, they aren't allowed to work from hotels, cafes, airports, WeWorks, etc.

Then yeah, there's this sliding scale of hybrid remote/office work. "We're remote for now, but hope to get back to the office eventually". "We think 50/50 will be our new normal, but that's subject to change". "You can typically work from wherever you want, but we expect you to be available to come into the office for big meetings, etc".

Re: Remote-first work is taking over the rich world – research hints at why

#17

Post by extr »

I always see a lot of hemming and hawing in these threads but it's impossible to underscore just what a HUGE boon remote work is for people who don't want to or can't live in Tier 1 cities like SF or NYC. My career has taken on an entirely new trajectory. Prior to the pandemic I worked at two different companies over 6 years. Since the start of the pandemic I've changed jobs 3 times and my TC has almost tripled.

There are definitely downsides to it no doubt. I'm a social person and I miss shooting the shit with coworkers and in-person interaction. But I have to laugh when I see statistics in the article like "workers view being forced to be in the office full-time as equivalent to a 5% pay cut". 5%? Are you serious? For me, being asked to come into the office = I must physically live near my employer = I take more like a 70% pay cut. For 70% I'll find another social outlet!

Re: Remote-first work is taking over the rich world – research hints at why

#18

Post by IWantToRelocate »

where I work at theres a beautiful, cool and collaborative office. friendly people overall. But I much prefer work at home or whatever I want. Just need a good ISP. If they ever tell us we need to go to the office in an arbitrary frequency, then im out.

Re: Remote-first work is taking over the rich world – research hints at why

#19

Post by EMM_386 »

Everyone should keep in mind that water seeks its own level. And think of this on a global scale.

I've been working remotely for almost a decade as a senior software engineer. Now, post-Covid, almost everyone realizes they can do the same.

Salaries are going to drop in the "rich world", and it's not just because people are now fleeing places like SF/SV to lower cost of living areas.

We are also beginning to compete globally, far more than ever before with the ease of remote work. Qualified engineers can be found for 1/10th of the price with "near shore" companies in the "rich world".

I know because I've worked with them throughout various roles, both as peers and as a PM/Team Lead.

The money may start flowing from the "rich world" to the "poor world" soon, no need for H1B visas or anything else.

The gold rush days may be over.

Re: Remote-first work is taking over the rich world – research hints at why

#20

Post by aksss »

lastofthemojito wrote: post #16
version_five wrote: post #2

This is really about "at home first" work rather than remote work. The prevailing model seems to be "don't come to the office unless we want you there" as opposed to "work from anywhere". I understand the reasons for why companies want you at home but local rather than remote, just saying it's very different that real remote working.

There are so many different flavors of remote (and remote-ish) work. Lots of people (especially those who don't do remote work) think of remote work as "work wherever you want, whenever you want", but in reality there are often limitations. Employers generally care about what jurisdiction you live in so they can comply with tax law, etc. Some employers don't care where you're at as long as your long-term residence is…

I've never heard of USG jobs where you had to work specifically from home, but I don't doubt they exist nor that the USG would be so asinine. I'd hate the condition of having to be specifically at home. Would probably set up a VPN to house or something just out of principle and then run away to hawaii for a week (assuming odds of being randomly called in were slim but you could always claim potential covid exposure, I guess).
Post reply on HN