Live data from Hacker News

Why are our brains shrinking?

usfblogs.usfca.edu

101–110 of 199 posts

Re: Why are our brains shrinking?

#101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Far before civilization too, so I guess we can't blame sedentarism either.

Kind of like warming since the end of the last glacial period 10,000 years ago.

You're not trying to imply that that is the cause of the current global warming, are you?

Re: Why are our brains shrinking?

#102

Because we are being domesticated. Domesticated animals are all dumber than their wild counterparts. Every wild animal that ends up being domesticated ends up with a smaller brain. I should rephrase and maybe say that this doesn't necessarily mean the animals get dumber but they definitely change in the process of domestication and a smaller brain is one of those adaptations. [1] > The reduced amount of white matter…

The article touches on that too. It is pretty comprehensive about a variety of going theories and doesn’t make the mistake of choosing any single one of them as the “because”.

I did not read the article because I'm an armchair expert on such matters.

Re: Why are our brains shrinking?

#103

It seems like the majority of the comments are not taking into account that this trend began approximately 70,000 years ago - slightly before the various things people here are blaming such as TikTok, Google, writing, Javascript and Twitter. Cutting-edge (heh) technology 70,000 years ago was the stone blade as well as the earliest known primitive art. An interesting guide whenever you're trying to put this kind of th…

> Cutting-edge (heh) technology 70,000 years ago was the stone blade as well as the earliest known primitive art I think it's important to remember that technology is highly, highly iterative. It's not like if Elon Musk were born 70k years ago we'd have cavemen with electric cars. In fact, if all of us were somehow warped back in time that far, I fear we'd be even worse off. We know how to roll fiber optic networks a…

If an intelligent modern person with some knowledge of history was sent back to 70,000 years ago (70 kya) we'd probably be able to bring significant help to the group - assuming we were accepted into the group and not immediately killed by our ancestors in peak physical condition. Personally, I'd attempt to introduce:

- art and culture from the far future (flutes, 42 kya; figurative art, 40 kya)

- Simple ovens (29 kya) and pottery (20 kya)

- Rope and various ways to use rope (nets, clothes, bags) 26-28 kya

- Saws (20 kya)

- Dugout canoes (8 kya)

- Basic knowledge of health and disease (concept of potable/non-potable water, "fertility awareness" method for contraception, warm clothing, prevention of injuries, etc)

- Food preservation (salting and drying meat, fermented foods, perhaps sealing things with pitch?)

- Wheeled carts (3 kya)

- "Water bottles": animal skins sealed with pitch

Each of these can probably be made/demonstrated over a period of days or weeks and would likely impress the group. If I was really successful and managed to lead the group, I'd probably try to at least get us on our way to these things (would likely take generations):

- Attempt animal domestication (13 kya)

- Cultivation of barley and wheat (10 kya)

- Water wheel (2 kya)

- Migration to fertile region (Fertile Crescent perhaps?)

Re: Why are our brains shrinking?

#104

It seems like the majority of the comments are not taking into account that this trend began approximately 70,000 years ago - slightly before the various things people here are blaming such as TikTok, Google, writing, Javascript and Twitter. Cutting-edge (heh) technology 70,000 years ago was the stone blade as well as the earliest known primitive art. An interesting guide whenever you're trying to put this kind of th…

I wish I could upvote this more. I would be willing to bet a number of such comments did not even read the article and responding based on impulse with their gripe about modern society du-jour.

The HN rule about not being able to ask if someone read the article or imply/suggest that they did not is the worst rule on the site, because it encourages this behaviour :(

Re: Why are our brains shrinking?

#105
Any potential explanation would have to account for the fact that this happened around the world, not only in certain sub-populations. The article isn't clear on whether it began at different times in different places, possibly because the data isn't complete enough. A start date of 70,000 years ago suggests it has something to do with human exodus from africa that occurred around that time. The difficulty is that even southern africans see the change, suggesting that it wasn't particular to the emmigrees.

I would therefore propose that some event occurred which pushed humans out of africa, which lead to those that remained having smaller brains, and ultimately lead those that left to the same position. Perhaps that explanation is simply population density. Populations tend to expand geometrically, such that the largest portion of population growth occurs in the latest generations. We also know that all modern humans are descended from a very small set of people, maybe as few as fifty (?).

So humans began at that population, slowly expanded across africa for a few tens of thousand of years, started running out of space and were forced to migrate away from africa, then shortly filled up the rest of the earth. Having no where else to escape to, we were forced to deal with increased population density. This lead to lower food availability to support large brains, as well as increased need to reduce aggressive behaviour, achieved via more juvenile brains. Thus, brain sizes reduced across the globe.

Re: Why are our brains shrinking?

#106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Cutting-edge (heh) technology 70,000 years ago was the stone blade as well as the earliest known primitive art I think it's important to remember that technology is highly, highly iterative. It's not like if Elon Musk were born 70k years ago we'd have cavemen with electric cars. In fact, if all of us were somehow warped back in time that far, I fear we'd be even worse off. We know how to roll fiber optic networks a…

If an intelligent modern person with some knowledge of history was sent back to 70,000 years ago (70 kya) we'd probably be able to bring significant help to the group - assuming we were accepted into the group and not immediately killed by our ancestors in peak physical condition. Personally, I'd attempt to introduce: - art and culture from the far future (flutes, 42 kya; figurative art, 40 kya) - Simple ovens (29 ky…

Interesting thought experiment. Language/communication barrier and that whole getting murdered for looking different aside...if you were able to accomplish such things, I'd imagine the world you came back to -today- would look much, much different.

Re: Why are our brains shrinking?

#107
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The brain itself is the evolutionary pressure. It is often repeated that the brain takes ~20% of our body's energy despite being ~2% of our body's mass. If there is no need to have a brain so large (due to a lack of predators) it is beneficial to shrink it.

It's beneficial to lower the brain's calorie intake it if it results in higher reproductive fitness. But like GP said, we have plenty of calories, more than we've had compared to the entire history of humanity. So it doesn't naturally follow that lower calorie brains are higher fitness in 2021.

There are no guarantees civilization won't collapse. The traits that were essential for our survival in the stone age aren't things we want to abandon. I'm a big fan of redundancy.

Re: Why are our brains shrinking?

#108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Cutting-edge (heh) technology 70,000 years ago was the stone blade as well as the earliest known primitive art I think it's important to remember that technology is highly, highly iterative. It's not like if Elon Musk were born 70k years ago we'd have cavemen with electric cars. In fact, if all of us were somehow warped back in time that far, I fear we'd be even worse off. We know how to roll fiber optic networks a…

If an intelligent modern person with some knowledge of history was sent back to 70,000 years ago (70 kya) we'd probably be able to bring significant help to the group - assuming we were accepted into the group and not immediately killed by our ancestors in peak physical condition. Personally, I'd attempt to introduce: - art and culture from the far future (flutes, 42 kya; figurative art, 40 kya) - Simple ovens (29 ky…

One wonders if the concept of language 70kya was sufficiently advanced for you to transmit ideas beyond the immediate and concrete. I wouldn’t be surprised if you’d have better luck with water wheels than animal domestication, despite the latter preceding the former.

Re: Why are our brains shrinking?

#109
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a recent news about elephants evolving to have no tusks... Something that is happening in a relatively short time span. I will no wonder if our modern trends (consuming anything to get pleasure and short-term rewards) will affect our brain size in a similar time span.

That was very much guided evolution though - elephants without tusks get spared, the others get killed for the tusks. There’s nothing like that happening with humans at a population scale, outside the realm of conspiracy theories

Are you more, or less likely to breed the more social media you consume?

Re: Why are our brains shrinking?

#110
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is already playing out at a global level: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S01602... "There were strong negative correlations found between national IQ and three national indicators of fertility." I think we should look on with worry that there are people with smaller brains that we are now giving unlimited resources to (food, technology, medicine), via aid and welfare programs. The dysgenic…

There are so many problems with this post. * Implying a connection between IQ and brain size * Implying IQ is a measure of a person's worth to society * Implying people below some magic IQ threshold that renders them unworthy are being "given" resources

While the first one is probably really wrong, the other two are clearly fine.

Imagine a unique cat with an IQ of human. Would you say it is more worth to society, than any other cat? Probably so. Is there a magic IQ threshold that renders other cats not as worthy as humans to not be given the same kind of resources? In a way yes, as you would draw a line.

Intelligence is what makes humans humans.

Post reply on HN