Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why noise is necessary for our brains to perform at a high-level

ekin.substack.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 158 posts

Re: Why noise is necessary for our brains to perform at a high-level

#91

Post by adventured »

munificent wrote: post #69
adventured wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We instinctively feel safest when we hear the chatter and hub-bub of relaxed tribemates puttering around nearby. We know we're not alone, that there are others will also be alerted if something happens, and that they also feel safe. I can confirm that is false. If it were an actual instinct, I would possess it as would essentially all people. I do not possess that instinct what-so-ever. I do not gain an increased f…

> f it were an actual instinct, I would possess it as would essentially all people. I do not possess that instinct what-so-ever. The existence of variation does not disprove the existence of trends.

Of course. However the parent stated it as a "We" that was implied to span humanity. It doesn't.

Re: Why noise is necessary for our brains to perform at a high-level

#92

Post by new_guy »

Isthatablackgsd wrote: post #3

I am Deaf myself and using my hearing aids all of my life. One thing I discovered that silence is the best productivity focus for me. During my job, I always keep my hearing aids off. This helps with my ADHD as I am easily distracted when there is a sound involved, sometime causes me to ‘hyperfocus’ in my “world” than doing my job. And interesting that I found that keeping my hearing aids off makes the time around me…

I wear ear plugs basically turning my ears 'off', that's the only thing that makes me productive.

Re: Why noise is necessary for our brains to perform at a high-level

#93

Post by motohagiography »

Isthatablackgsd wrote: post #79
motohagiography wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Super interesting, thank you. Indeed, if the hearing aid EQ'd the input to bring out things in the range of speech, the effect in most of the artistic binaural beats tracks could be suppressed, as the effect is caused by a very specific difference between tones sent to each ear. The beats are the artifact of directing two frequencies with a difference of only a few Hz, one per ear, and the "beat," phenomenon is a pul…

It is more likely it is the hearing aids EQs are changing the sounds. Hearing aids is basically a computer in a tiny form, that why they are $2,000 to $6,000 USD each. Every hearing aids (each side of the ear) have a customized EQ for each wearer, it is conform to their hearing ability to pick up sounds. For myself, I can hear up to 2MHz and only audible at 100 dB with hearing aids. I can’t hear past 2.5Mhz range but…

Looking it up, 2khz is about C7 (c note at 7th octave), which most music is below, but you'd miss a lot of additional harmonics that could have context.

So, well into the speculative here, if binaural beats are indeed a real thing, e.g. that by offsetting a tone between two ears and frequencies it produces a third epiphenomanal artifact that is not explicitly "heard," but processed outside the range of what the ear can distinguish by the brain, it does imply we could take any sound and then modulate it so that it appeared or was realized in this meta effect range where the brain automatically processes it.

If binaural beats are not real, then there's a lot of speculative woo that automatically gets debunked. But if they are real, and there were a way to take a frequency or sound, and modulate it so that the effect could be processed by the brain as an artifact of its own processing and not as the actual physical "sound," that could be interesting. Maybe the way hearing aids EQ sounds also shifts frequencies and folds them into the range the listener can physically hear already. If there were a meta sound that binaural beats in effect claim to be, there would also be an FFT that would take a given sound input and transform it through stereo headphones to produce it at the frequency one could "hear" as an artifact of the brain reconstructing it.

I'm well into the territory of "dare to be stupid" speculation here, but the premise of creating a binaural beat to create this super-audible artifact, then modulating the artifact effect to transmit the information would be pretty interesting (probably even an ffmpeg one liner). I like cuban cigars and american whiskey if someone reading this becomes a billionare as a result of implementing it, but if it doesn't make a difference, there's a whole subculture of binaural beat internet woo that needs to know it isn't a thing. :)

Re: Why noise is necessary for our brains to perform at a high-level

#94

Post by neom »

tharkun__ wrote: post #89
neom wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I almost can't work without the radio on. I can buy the comment that said we want people near us to work. I like working at home with the radio on, no one will bug me, but maybe it feels like people are around?

I wouldn't be able to work if the radio was on. I can buy that we want people near us not to feel alone. I get that too when nobody else is in the house and I'm alone and not working. You suddenly focus on a lot of noises you otherwise wouldn't and wonder if they're normal. That cracking noise your roof structure makes in 0F weather? You don't even notice when people are around but you wonder if someone is breaking i…

I wonder if our work involves different type of thinking? I advise early stage startups, most of my time is reviewing go to market strategy, reading companies docs generally, and then writing emails asking lots of questions. If I'm reviewing a 150 page board deck, it can take me 4/5 hours to do it properly + notes, and I have to think pretty deeply about the deck, but I couldn't imagine doing it in silence, I'd go nuts.

Re: Why noise is necessary for our brains to perform at a high-level

#95

Post by adventured »

throw_nbvc1234 wrote: post #66
twofornone wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If it were an actual instinct, I would possess it as would essentially all people. I do not possess that instinct what-so-ever. I don't think it's necessarily valid to expect that all peoples have evolved the same set of instincts. Particularly given adaptation to vastly different environments over the last 200k or so years after leaving africa. This particular instinct would not likely be a prerequisite for surviva…

Or OP is simply the kind of person who would end up dead 200k years ago. But a more civilized world allows them to survive and potentially thrive. Technology (especially medical) and civilization are forces that act against evolution; to the extent that they probably seek to stop human evolution.

Today there are certainly drastically more opportunities for someone like me to not comform with the tribe. The risk is far lower than it would have been in past times. I tend to function like a robot in a traditional job context, my brain does some manner of emulation in those situations. Instead, I can be a remote software developer and never have to fit into a traditional team environment in an office, or slog through a corporate hierarchy. I can pursue high value contracting/consulting tasks that pay for the rest of my time to do what I want to do. I can trivially invest my earnings at zero cost into massive scale markets, again without requiring that I go through tribal/caste/cartel networks (bankers, brokers) to partake; specifically there is no permission required, no kissing of the banker's ring needed, I don't have to work through tribal networks to gain access, I don't have to win their favor (and they largely have no idea who I am in this context, whereas a thousand years ago the situation would have been entirely different for someone like me). I can fairly easily and safely roam at will, whether within the US or internationally courtesy of a passport. I plainly benefit from society, and I happily pay taxes into it (I benefit from the order and systems that helps deliver), even if I don't enjoy all aspects of society. There has never been a better time to be someone constructed as I am.

I suspect that I would have operated on the edge of civilizations many thousands of years ago. I would be more likely to do fringe things, and trade. I've always enjoyed trading, the economic action of it, although I dislike traditional sales. Roaming trader or hunter would be most likely rather than shop owner in a bazaar. The roaming would be ideal for multiple reasons. I also prefer to be awake during the night and always have; I can easily sleep during daylight hours and without a darkened space.

Re: Why noise is necessary for our brains to perform at a high-level

#96

Post by spaetzleesser »

munificent wrote: post #16

I've worked in private offices, cubicles, open plan offices, coffeeshops, libraries, and now many many hours in home both when other family members are around and when they aren't. I spend a lot of time thinking about sound and focus. The conclusion I came to is that humans have a few emotional needs in order to reach deep focus: 1. We need to not be distracted and we need to feel certainty that we will not be distra…

I don't think there is one correct way. Sometimes I like some noise, sometimes I don't, sometimes I like having people around, sometimes I want to be alone.

In the end it's about being able to control your environment to some degree. That's what open offices and cube farms have taken away.

Being able to control room temprature is also very helpful.

Re: Why noise is necessary for our brains to perform at a high-level

#97

Post by makeitdouble »

munificent wrote: post #68
bcrosby95 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like you guys haven't established any work boundaries. It can be impossible if both of you work. But if not.... I've worked at home for about 17 years now. I have a 6 year old, two 3 year olds, and my wife is a stay at home mom. I don't get interrupted, and there's never been an age range where I would regularly get interrupted. At the most frequent, maybe once per week. Definitely not even once per day though…

You may have established boundaries, but you almost certainly have your wife to thank for 99% of the enforcement of them.

To pile a bit on the parent's take, I think it's just hell if none can set boundaries.

During the stay home period it meant for us that everyday we scheduled who does 100% work at what time, and who takes care of the rest in the meantime (might mean light work while looking after things)

That meant switching back and forth the roles about once or twice everyday, including when the other needs to cook or go to groceries.

In this respect, I think there is just no way to have both parents 100% working at home with a kid needing attention, and trying to reach that will only make everyone miserable.

Re: Why noise is necessary for our brains to perform at a high-level

#98

Post by tharkun__ »

neom wrote: post #94
tharkun__ wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't be able to work if the radio was on. I can buy that we want people near us not to feel alone. I get that too when nobody else is in the house and I'm alone and not working. You suddenly focus on a lot of noises you otherwise wouldn't and wonder if they're normal. That cracking noise your roof structure makes in 0F weather? You don't even notice when people are around but you wonder if someone is breaking i…

I wonder if our work involves different type of thinking? I advise early stage startups, most of my time is reviewing go to market strategy, reading companies docs generally, and then writing emails asking lots of questions. If I'm reviewing a 150 page board deck, it can take me 4/5 hours to do it properly + notes, and I have to think pretty deeply about the deck, but I couldn't imagine doing it in silence, I'd go nu…

I'm a team lead. I have enough interactions with people. There are phases of one meeting after another (video conf) or maybe a half hour in between here and there in which there's communication on various channels and topics in slack.

There are also phases of not having that interaction and I might be checking how a particular piece of code works right now e.g. while triaging a bug that came in or I might be creating or reviewing a document, such as a flow chart, architectural diagram etc. Or coding something of various different degrees of difficulty.

During none of these would I want any radio (or other kind of) noise. Not even the deep thinking and not interacting with people phases. I am also introverted so I like these phases. They recharge me.

At some point the kids come home and I'll have noise again and by that time I want to be finished with work.

Re: Why noise is necessary for our brains to perform at a high-level

#100

Post by MauranKilom »

Isthatablackgsd wrote: post #79
motohagiography wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Super interesting, thank you. Indeed, if the hearing aid EQ'd the input to bring out things in the range of speech, the effect in most of the artistic binaural beats tracks could be suppressed, as the effect is caused by a very specific difference between tones sent to each ear. The beats are the artifact of directing two frequencies with a difference of only a few Hz, one per ear, and the "beat," phenomenon is a pul…

It is more likely it is the hearing aids EQs are changing the sounds. Hearing aids is basically a computer in a tiny form, that why they are $2,000 to $6,000 USD each. Every hearing aids (each side of the ear) have a customized EQ for each wearer, it is conform to their hearing ability to pick up sounds. For myself, I can hear up to 2MHz and only audible at 100 dB with hearing aids. I can’t hear past 2.5Mhz range but…

I assume you mean 2 kHz, right? Normal human hearing doesn't go beyond ~23 kHz, and certainly not into MHz range.
Post reply on HN