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Zappos CEO’s final months describe drug-addicted psychosis in court documents

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Re: Zappos CEO’s final months describe drug-addicted psychosis in court documents

#41

Anybody have a link to the court documents referenced in this news article, because I can't find it in the article itself? (As an aside I really would prefer news articles that are summarizations of other documents to please also provide the original document)

The case is docketed in Nevada State Court (District Court, County of Clark). A portal for various Nevada courts can be found at:

https://www.clarkcountycourts.us/Portal/Home/WorkspaceMode?p...

Searching is enabled at the bottom of the page. The index number of the case is: A-21-828090-B (the case caption is: Baby Monster LLC, Plaintiff(s) vs. PCVI LLC, Defendant(s)). Unfortunately, you have to register on the site and pay for a copy of the requested documents.

The Daily Mail printed a story with more detail - some of the individuals named in the original post really come off as horrible - in which they've embedded some of the pleadings:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10116643/Late-billi...

Re: Zappos CEO’s final months describe drug-addicted psychosis in court documents

#42
post #39

Dissociatives (e.g., ketamine, nitrous oxide, xenon, phencyclidine, dextromethorphan in cough syrup) are too addictive, too pleasurable, and reliably produce long-lasting delusional states (e.g., as observed in John C. Lilly and Marcia Moore and Tony Hsieh). It is disturbing to read Marcia Moore's "Journeys Into the Bright World" ( http://pdf.textfiles.com/books/journeysbrightworld.pdf ) where she recounts that John…

What happened to Lilly? I was always curious about that. (Side note while I have you: if your real name isn't SashaShulgin can you please email hn@ycombinator.com with a different username we can rename you to? It's distracting to use a username like that if it's communicating the wrong thing.)

Sasha and Ann Shulgin famously believed that dissociatives have no safe role in psychedelic therapy:

  "We are strongly prejudiced against psychedelic drugs which cause such mind-body separation, as we are against any drug which causes separation from feelings and emotions. However, we acknowledge that the ketamine state can be highly instructive for researchers trying to understand the functions of the human mind."
Alexander (Sasha) Shulgin passed away in 2014. He is a historical figure. His lab will eventually be an official historical landmark.

Is it really so confusing that I use his nickname as a handle online?

John C. Lilly died of heart failure at age 86 in Los Angeles on September 30, 2001. His remains were cremated.

Re: Zappos CEO’s final months describe drug-addicted psychosis in court documents

#43
post #3

This Zappos article is like the whole catalog of rich people problems in a nutshell: drugs, parasitic relationships, arrests, and dumb accidents. I know some people who know people who made a lot of money in the 2000s dot com boom. One of them got a "guru" who he paid several thousands of dollars a day to. The "guru" fed him Ayahuasca and people who visited the rich guy at his house said he had removed all furniture…

> They often say that there's no one more hopeless than a rich junky. If they have a very large amount of money, they never hit rock bottom until they're dead.

Why doesn't anyone make the argument of quality vs. quantity when discussing such examplers

5 years spent as a rich junkie must be worth a lifetime as a 9-5 cubicle worker

Re: Zappos CEO’s final months describe drug-addicted psychosis in court documents

#44

Dissociatives (e.g., ketamine, nitrous oxide, xenon, phencyclidine, dextromethorphan in cough syrup) are too addictive, too pleasurable, and reliably produce long-lasting delusional states (e.g., as observed in John C. Lilly and Marcia Moore and Tony Hsieh). It is disturbing to read Marcia Moore's "Journeys Into the Bright World" ( http://pdf.textfiles.com/books/journeysbrightworld.pdf ) where she recounts that John…

>On the other hand, there are other classes of psychedelics that are unambiguously good: tryptamines (e.g., psilocybin) and phenethylamines (e.g., mescaline).

I don't know that I would necessarily classify hallucinogenic psychedelics as unambiguously good. I suspect the potential negative effects are understudied and under reported. Beyond hallucinogen persisting perception disorder (admittedly rare), medium-long term induced psychosis (also probably rare), while users frequently report positive effects both short and long term, there are potentially profound psychological/neurological alterations occurring post use which may not be obviously detrimental. What further complicates the issue is that, because of the strong dependence on existing psychological state (set and setting), its quite possible that a user's culture becomes a significant confounding factor and that some groups of people may in fact be worse off after using some or all such psychedelics.

Personally, a year or two post experience I noticed that certain emotions are more apparent to my perception which honestly I would have preferred to continue ignoring.

I still suspect that for the vast majority of people hallucinogens can be positive but let's not make the mistake of preemptively asserting that they are harmless.

Re: Zappos CEO’s final months describe drug-addicted psychosis in court documents

#45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This Zappos article is like the whole catalog of rich people problems in a nutshell: drugs, parasitic relationships, arrests, and dumb accidents. Not all "rich people" have these problems. You just don't tend to hear about the ones who live normal lives.

The point being made is that it’s hard to get by and be deep in more one of those situations if you’re poor.

Poor people don't get deep into drugs, aren't involved in numerous parasitic relationships, don't get arrested or do dumb things? That's only something rich people get deeply involved in?

Of course not, it's just no one cares when a poor person does it. The reason we care about when rich people do it is precisely because we don't expect someone who is rich and seems to have it all to get into these situations, and the reality is that for the most part, they don't.

Re: Zappos CEO’s final months describe drug-addicted psychosis in court documents

#46
post #3

This Zappos article is like the whole catalog of rich people problems in a nutshell: drugs, parasitic relationships, arrests, and dumb accidents. I know some people who know people who made a lot of money in the 2000s dot com boom. One of them got a "guru" who he paid several thousands of dollars a day to. The "guru" fed him Ayahuasca and people who visited the rich guy at his house said he had removed all furniture…

Bill Murray said try being rich before being rich and famous. I'm rethinking the rich part.

Rich is better than famous. Plenty of people are quietly rich and basically just go about their business and live their lives, secure in the knowledge that there's money in the bank if they need it.

There's no such thing as quietly famous. Many of pitfalls of being rich & famous, like greedy enablers and a larger-than-life lifestyle, stem from the "famous" part.

Re: Zappos CEO’s final months describe drug-addicted psychosis in court documents

#47
post #43
post #3

This Zappos article is like the whole catalog of rich people problems in a nutshell: drugs, parasitic relationships, arrests, and dumb accidents. I know some people who know people who made a lot of money in the 2000s dot com boom. One of them got a "guru" who he paid several thousands of dollars a day to. The "guru" fed him Ayahuasca and people who visited the rich guy at his house said he had removed all furniture…

> They often say that there's no one more hopeless than a rich junky. If they have a very large amount of money, they never hit rock bottom until they're dead. Why doesn't anyone make the argument of quality vs. quantity when discussing such examplers 5 years spent as a rich junkie must be worth a lifetime as a 9-5 cubicle worker

"5 years spent as a rich junkie must be worth a lifetime as a 9-5 cubicle worker."

This claim demands great evidence.

Re: Zappos CEO’s final months describe drug-addicted psychosis in court documents

#48

> Our European visitors are important to us. > This site is currently unavailable to visitors from the European Economic Area while we work to ensure your data is protected in accordance with applicable EU laws. I wonder if sites will ever stop lying about this.

I wonder if Europe will ever lift its Iron GDPR Curtain to allow its residents to access free-world websites!

Re: Zappos CEO’s final months describe drug-addicted psychosis in court documents

#49
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> NOT prone to abuse Citation needed.

I picked psilocybin for you. "Psilocybin is not considered to be addictive nor does it cause compulsive use" - [0] [0]: https://drugpolicy.org/drug-facts/are-psilocybin-mushrooms-a...

I know people who got fucked up for years due to a single shroom or LSD trip. Some of them got sorted out eventually, others didn’t.

Re: Zappos CEO’s final months describe drug-addicted psychosis in court documents

#50
> According to friends, Hsieh used “as many as 50 cartridges of nitrous oxide a day, often in public, or during 'meetings' with people

I mean, it’s a lot, but I’m surprised it’s not higher. Each cartridge yields a minute, maybe two, of intoxication before a quick return to baseline.

Probably less intoxication than hits of ketamine with its half life of 1-2 hours.

But it may have been on top of other substance use. Nitrous use is just very overt.

The chronic nitrous use will make it extremely difficult to maintain adequate vitamin B12 levels. Nitrous is very effective at deactivating it, and diet doesn’t have a ton. B12 deficiency has lots of nasty neurological effects: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_B12_deficiency

Even passive (same room) exposure to nitrous oxide leads to 25% reduced b12 levels.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17951609/

Who the hell knows what else nitrous is oxidizing away over the long term.

Cartridges often have a little machine oil impurity that will add up when consuming the amount that would be in 1L of whipped cream 50x a day. Hopefully he acquired the good ones.

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