The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it • Hacker News Board

Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

#61

Post by lookalike74 » Thu, Oct 28, 2021, 6:12 PM UTC

__blockcipher__ wrote: post #17

edgyquant wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I saw a similar post that claimed the new meth caused psychosis and hallucinations, etc. I don’t know much about meth itself but I do know about Adderall. When you take the normal dose (10-30mg) it can cause some euphoria but for the most part it helps you focus, gives energy (makes you more happy, talkative.) But when it is abused (60+mg) it can cause serious psychosis with all kinds of mental side effects. I image…

Yeah it's all very straightforward when you look at usage patterns. Often meth abusers will smoke multiple points across a day (a point = 100mg). As a result they stay awake for days straight, don't eat, and often will engage in enormously risky sexual behavior (this is the dirty secret of AIDS btw...it arose in the context of the "party and play" gay subculture where people would smoke meth or other drugs and have s…

The 'dirty secret' you refer to (1) is mostly wrong because partying with LSD was popular in the early 80s, not meth, and (2) the gay community is and always has been very up front about risky behaviors and how to minimize the risks. Just because you're unaware of something doesn't make it a secret.

Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

#62

Post by orangepurple » Thu, Oct 28, 2021, 6:15 PM UTC

__blockcipher__ wrote: post #17

edgyquant wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I saw a similar post that claimed the new meth caused psychosis and hallucinations, etc. I don’t know much about meth itself but I do know about Adderall. When you take the normal dose (10-30mg) it can cause some euphoria but for the most part it helps you focus, gives energy (makes you more happy, talkative.) But when it is abused (60+mg) it can cause serious psychosis with all kinds of mental side effects. I image…

Yeah it's all very straightforward when you look at usage patterns. Often meth abusers will smoke multiple points across a day (a point = 100mg). As a result they stay awake for days straight, don't eat, and often will engage in enormously risky sexual behavior (this is the dirty secret of AIDS btw...it arose in the context of the "party and play" gay subculture where people would smoke meth or other drugs and have s…

Amphetamines also cause capillary vasoconstriction which eventually kills off your gums

Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

#63

Post by goatsi » Thu, Oct 28, 2021, 6:19 PM UTC

arcticfox wrote: post #30

pessimizer wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This "new meth" thing seems like a PR push by government contractors. It's redolent of the UK "skunk" scare (it's not the pot you used to smoke, mommies and daddies - it's special pot that will definitely make your children think they can fly and jump out of windows, and become prostitutes to pay for more.)

What makes you say that? I'm not 100% sold on it yet, but my city has always been "welcoming" to homeless folks and it has never been a huge problem. Now it looks like an actual zombie apocalypse out there in some parts, and there are periodically meth busts of hundreds of pounds in just random apartments, not even kingpin types. Combined with the anecdotal evidence from social workers, there's a whole lot of smoke o…

As the article points out, the big change is in the production levels and the price. If meth is cheap and every dealer is flooded with it, more people are going to be using it and in higher quantities that will produce more visible (and negative) effects.

The random apartments are probably stash houses used for storage of bulk quantities that would be broken down and distributed to dealers.

Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

#64

Post by kens » Thu, Oct 28, 2021, 6:20 PM UTC

The article mentions the ban in 2006 of over-the-counter sales of Sudafed (pseudoephedrine). One of my favorite satirical articles is "A simple and convenient synthesis of pseudoephedrine from N-methylamphetamine". (The joke being that Sudafed is now hard to purchase while meth is readily available.)

https://www.improbable.com/airchives/paperair/volume19/v19i3...

Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

#65

Post by elliekelly » Thu, Oct 28, 2021, 6:23 PM UTC

pessimizer wrote: post #27

edgyquant wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I saw a similar post that claimed the new meth caused psychosis and hallucinations, etc. I don’t know much about meth itself but I do know about Adderall. When you take the normal dose (10-30mg) it can cause some euphoria but for the most part it helps you focus, gives energy (makes you more happy, talkative.) But when it is abused (60+mg) it can cause serious psychosis with all kinds of mental side effects. I image…

This "new meth" thing seems like a PR push by government contractors. It's redolent of the UK "skunk" scare (it's not the pot you used to smoke, mommies and daddies - it's special pot that will definitely make your children think they can fly and jump out of windows, and become prostitutes to pay for more.)

> government contractors

I’m not sure I follow? I know drug fear-mongering is a favorite tactic of politicians but I’m not sure I understand what government contractors have to do with it. Are you alluding to private prisons? Or perhaps some other piggy-back industry that I’m unaware of?

Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

#66

Post by NikolaeVarius » Thu, Oct 28, 2021, 6:28 PM UTC

__blockcipher__ wrote: post #17

edgyquant wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I saw a similar post that claimed the new meth caused psychosis and hallucinations, etc. I don’t know much about meth itself but I do know about Adderall. When you take the normal dose (10-30mg) it can cause some euphoria but for the most part it helps you focus, gives energy (makes you more happy, talkative.) But when it is abused (60+mg) it can cause serious psychosis with all kinds of mental side effects. I image…

Yeah it's all very straightforward when you look at usage patterns. Often meth abusers will smoke multiple points across a day (a point = 100mg). As a result they stay awake for days straight, don't eat, and often will engage in enormously risky sexual behavior (this is the dirty secret of AIDS btw...it arose in the context of the "party and play" gay subculture where people would smoke meth or other drugs and have s…

Meth causes your mouth to produce to less saliva which removes the bacteria moderating ability of your mouth.

Combine that with also constricting the blood vessels of your gums, and you get a great mix of infection of dying tissue.

Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

#67

Post by elliekelly » Thu, Oct 28, 2021, 6:36 PM UTC

monkmartinez wrote: post #31

The reason Meth use is going up is not due to Meth itself. It counter balances the effects of Fentanyl. I regularly go to Fentanyl overdoses where the bystanders tell me they ran out of "G" or "Glass" and simply overdid it with the "M30's"... Its a fucking nightmare. It used to be "meth" users would say..."At least I am not a dope junky using H." Heroin users would say... "At least I am not a tweaker." Now they are o…

Sorry, for someone who knows next to nothing about drugs can you clarify? I’m assuming “glass” is the meth and the “M30” pills are fentanyl? Or maybe the other way around? And, if you don’t mind, can you explain what you mean by “counterbalance”? I’m assuming it’s like drinking a red bull with vodka? Does it actually “counterbalance” chemically so someone could “safely” (for lack of a better word) take more fentanyl without overdosing if they took meth along side it? Or does it create the sensation of counterbalancing to make users take less fentanyl in the first place?

I guess what I’m asking is, is taking meth + fentanyl marginally safer than taking just fentanyl? I know neither is safe. I’m just curious how the two interact and what you mean by counterbalance.

I’m also curious if, somewhat counter-intuitively, fentanyl addicts could be “treated“ with adderall to make their drug use safer? At the very least adderall has to be safer than street meth?

The entirety of my knowledge of street drugs came from D.A.R.E. and Breaking Bad so apologies if these are ridiculous questions.

Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

#68

Post by stcredzero » Thu, Oct 28, 2021, 6:39 PM UTC

notJim wrote: post #44

bteitelb wrote: post #29

A curious footnote: Sam Quinones argues that P2P meth is part of the explanation for the proliferation of tents in homeless encampments, because it causes users withdraw socially in ways that earlier meth didn't. This is what he means by it "brought you inside". Users want to be alone (i.e. in a tent) with their paranoid schizophrenic hallucinations.

That's a bizarre argument. All humans need shelter, whether it's a tent or a house.

What's cheaper than a tent? 1/2 or 1/3rd of a tent. That's enough if shelter is the only issue. If there is a need for the poorest to have solitude, there's going to be a proliferation in the number of tents.

Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

#69

Post by Synaesthesia » Thu, Oct 28, 2021, 6:43 PM UTC

Meth is just a very harmful drug, which can cause psychosis. I don't know if I buy this theory that it's a different drug.

Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

#70

Post by SkittyDog » Thu, Oct 28, 2021, 6:48 PM UTC

NikolaeVarius wrote: post #66

__blockcipher__ wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah it's all very straightforward when you look at usage patterns. Often meth abusers will smoke multiple points across a day (a point = 100mg). As a result they stay awake for days straight, don't eat, and often will engage in enormously risky sexual behavior (this is the dirty secret of AIDS btw...it arose in the context of the "party and play" gay subculture where people would smoke meth or other drugs and have s…

Meth causes your mouth to produce to less saliva which removes the bacteria moderating ability of your mouth. Combine that with also constricting the blood vessels of your gums, and you get a great mix of infection of dying tissue.

It's a myth. I have met hundreds, maybe thousands of long term addicts of meth, crack, and heroin... Lifestyle addicts suffer from massive tooth decay & dental problems, in similar proportions, regardless of which drug they were using.

Whatever the pharmacological impact of meth usage on oral health, it's pretty clear to me that it's a much smaller factor than the general gone-to-hell life of a full time addict.