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The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

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Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

#31
The reason Meth use is going up is not due to Meth itself. It counter balances the effects of Fentanyl. I regularly go to Fentanyl overdoses where the bystanders tell me they ran out of "G" or "Glass" and simply overdid it with the "M30's"... Its a fucking nightmare.

It used to be "meth" users would say..."At least I am not a dope junky using H." Heroin users would say... "At least I am not a tweaker." Now they are one in the same when I see them, which is generally cyanotic, apneic, and have been down for a while. We don't have enough Narcan to counter a bad batch of "M30" pills. Talk to your kids and tell them not to use any pills, not even once.

Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

#32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i have had a theory for years if you sold any drug like meth or cocaine in an advil bottle with a label on the side saying “take at most 1 tablet every 4 hours, do not exceed 6 tablets in one day. do not use for more than 2 days in a row” etc then the vast majority of people would not have any issue with it. the people who are already abusing it would continue to abuse it. most people can be around hard addictive dru…

Meth in a bottle is called Adderral. https://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/94rk1a/how_is_m...

Meth in a bottle is called Desoxyn (methamphetamine hydrochloride). https://www.rxlist.com/desoxyn-drug.htm

Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

#33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i have had a theory for years if you sold any drug like meth or cocaine in an advil bottle with a label on the side saying “take at most 1 tablet every 4 hours, do not exceed 6 tablets in one day. do not use for more than 2 days in a row” etc then the vast majority of people would not have any issue with it. the people who are already abusing it would continue to abuse it. most people can be around hard addictive dru…

Meth in a bottle is called Adderral. https://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/94rk1a/how_is_m...

And us socially acceptable in the bay area to be dependent

Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

#34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I saw a similar post that claimed the new meth caused psychosis and hallucinations, etc. I don’t know much about meth itself but I do know about Adderall. When you take the normal dose (10-30mg) it can cause some euphoria but for the most part it helps you focus, gives energy (makes you more happy, talkative.) But when it is abused (60+mg) it can cause serious psychosis with all kinds of mental side effects. I image…

Yeah it's all very straightforward when you look at usage patterns. Often meth abusers will smoke multiple points across a day (a point = 100mg). As a result they stay awake for days straight, don't eat, and often will engage in enormously risky sexual behavior (this is the dirty secret of AIDS btw...it arose in the context of the "party and play" gay subculture where people would smoke meth or other drugs and have s…

Great writeup!

Just adding on: Other key differentiator between recreational and therapeutic amphetamine usage is the pharmacokinetics: Vyvanse is the best in this regard - it’s actually an amphetamine prodrug that gets converted to amphetamine in the bloodstream over the course of ~2 hours, giving a very smooth release. Adderall achieves a similar end (to a lesser degree) by combining equal ratios of four different amphetamine salts with various absorption rates to smooth out the serum concentration curve. Dexedrine and Desoxyn I believe are both single salt compounds, and thus have a slightly higher risk of dependency due to their sharper peaks. Of course, other RoAs like smoking or injecting amphetamines recreationally take the effect to a whole new level with even sharper curves, dramatically raising the chances of addiction and negative side effects.

Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

#35
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meth in a bottle is called Adderral. https://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/94rk1a/how_is_m...

Meth in a bottle is called Desoxyn (methamphetamine hydrochloride). https://www.rxlist.com/desoxyn-drug.htm

Hah, and it’s prescribed for ADHD, and all the other stimulants are amphetamine derivatives. Who are people kidding?

Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

#36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Meth in a bottle is called Adderral. No, it's not. Please stop spreading this age-old myth*. You can literally buy prescription meth in a bottle, and it's called Desoxyn. Adderall is extremely similar, because amphetamine is quite similar to meth (just an inferior version IME). D-meth is probably 20-30% more potent than d-amp dose for dose, but with somewhat reduced unwanted peripheral (body) side effects. The othe…

I think the answer is in the middle. I don’t want to propagate a myth, but I do want to shed light on the fact that this isn’t a benign drug. It’s an amphetamine, many people want to sugar coat it like it’s this particularly saint-like medication (I mean the damn thing let’s you get a high salary job - don’t you disparage my Addy). Adderral and Vyvanse do have added ingredients that thwart abuse (mostly slows it down…

You're right on most of that but off on some details.

Only Vyvanse is anti-abuse, because the dextroamphatamine is bound to a lysine molecule. The body must cleave the lysine before it becomes active so snorting it doesn't give the instant rush.

Adderall has no such countermeasures. You're probably getting confused by the fact that it comes in both IR and XR formulations (instant release vs extended release). So if someone has XR adderall, it's not as snortable as IR. But it's still more snortable than Vyvanse is, and you can just get IR adderall which is totally abusable. (BTW X milligrams of XR is really just X/2 mg instant release and X/2 mg delayed release beads that take on average 4 hours to activate. So it's roughly equivalent to two X/2 mg IR doses split 4 hours apart) And finally the XR can be countered by crushing the beads up, although it's a bit laborious.

Amphetamine obviously has its risks, and particularly when prescribing to children doctors seem to write some ridiculously high dosage prescriptions without fully understanding what the drug is like. But you can just say that rather than doing the juvenile "it's really just meth in a bottle" shtick when there is literally already actual meth in a bottle that you can (with great difficulty) get prescribed. And that fact - that methamphetamine exists as a drug that can be prescribed - is much more interesting and surprising to people, given that the lay public is completely unaware that methamphetamine has any pharmaceutical uses.

Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

#37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Meth in a bottle is called Adderral. No, it's not. Please stop spreading this age-old myth*. You can literally buy prescription meth in a bottle, and it's called Desoxyn. Adderall is extremely similar, because amphetamine is quite similar to meth (just an inferior version IME). D-meth is probably 20-30% more potent than d-amp dose for dose, but with somewhat reduced unwanted peripheral (body) side effects. The othe…

I think the answer is in the middle. I don’t want to propagate a myth, but I do want to shed light on the fact that this isn’t a benign drug. It’s an amphetamine, many people want to sugar coat it like it’s this particularly saint-like medication (I mean the damn thing let’s you get a high salary job - don’t you disparage my Addy). Adderral and Vyvanse do have added ingredients that thwart abuse (mostly slows it down…

Most Adderall formulations have no anti-abuse precautions, unless you could extended release mechanisms. Vyvanse also doesn't generally have any ingredients added to it, it's a prodrug that is inactive until it is metabolized (which happens in the blood, not the liver so you can still snort it).

Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

#39

Oh wow. I saw the title and was ready to explain how the cartels had perfected p2p synths such that they yield almost exclusively pure d-methamphetamine, but before explaining that I was going to need to explain the general concept of chirality and enantiomers, and the fact that for amphetamines (especially meth) the d-entantiomer is always the "one you want" and the l-entantiomer is always the less desirable, less p…

> peripheral stimulation but no cerebral effects

What does this mean?

Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

#40

The reason Meth use is going up is not due to Meth itself. It counter balances the effects of Fentanyl. I regularly go to Fentanyl overdoses where the bystanders tell me they ran out of "G" or "Glass" and simply overdid it with the "M30's"... Its a fucking nightmare. It used to be "meth" users would say..."At least I am not a dope junky using H." Heroin users would say... "At least I am not a tweaker." Now they are o…

> counter balances the effects of Fentanyl

Could this explain the falling prices described in the article? Fentanyl is the money maker. Meth is being priced to encourage more opioid use?

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