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Female African elephants are evolving without tusks due to ivory poaching

theswaddle.com

291–300 of 320 posts

Re: Female African elephants are evolving without tusks due to ivory poaching

#291
post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except it's only advantageous to female elephants, according to the article: "They identified two likely genes AMELX and MEP1a, which are passed from mothers to the offspring on the X chromosome. But if a disrupted gene is passed in a male elephant, the elephant dies; the female elephant would instead evolve to be born without tusks. " What would be the effect of this on male elephant population when taken to the lim…

Warning: guesswork. If only females survive with this disruption, it can only be inherited from a mother, so only 1 X chromosome of a female can have it. If somehow only those females survive, there's a pool of 50% of X chromosomes of females with the mutation. The following generation would be born with half of the female population with the mutation (25% of female X chromosomes), and half of the male population dea…

I'm a layman in genetics, but I believe the effect you described is what is known as Fisher's principle.

Basically, when using sexual reproduction, it _would_ be highly effective for the species to have many more females than males, since females are the bottleneck of population growth. However, if the sex ratio is skewed then any traits which increases the likelihood of male offspring will enjoy a reproductive advantage (because the male offspring will itself have more offspring than the females), spread through the next generation, and reduce the sex ratio, until it reaches the balance of 50/50. This applies whether the trait is dominant or regressive, etc.

So in this scenario, as the tuskless mutation spreads, the number of males decreases and the genetic advantage of having tusks grows, until it balances out the genetic disadvantage of losing females to poachers.

Re: Female African elephants are evolving without tusks due to ivory poaching

#292
post #12

In case anyone is wondering about the size of the effect, https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/article/wildlife-... has the numbers. Before the war, 2-4% of female elephants were tuskless. Now 32% of newly born ones are. So it's a significant change, but it's not like this property was coming out of nowhere. It started off about as common as humans having green eyes.

wait what? i didn’t realize my green eyes were rare. interesting and also that’s a huge jump from 2-4%, honestly at least we don’t have to worry about them going extinct, but still sad

Re: Female African elephants are evolving without tusks due to ivory poaching

#293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Evolution IS selective breeding. The members of a species most fit for their environment are successful in procreation. The female elephants without tusks are surviving at higher rates which is resulting in more offspring with no tusks. This causes a shift in the population where a trait previously with no or little benefit becomes advantageous and the shift in genetic makeup of the whole population evolves.

But we don't commonly run around saying Arabians and Morgans are different because of evolution. Neither do we say that chihuahua's and labradors have evolved into their present form. In my humble opinion "evolution" refers to speciation, which takes very many generations.

> Neither do we say that chihuahua's and labradors have evolved into their present form.

This is artificial selection. When it occurs naturally, it's called Natural selection & it's the basis of evolution. The mechanism of both artificial and natural selection is the same -- increase of a trait in the population by selecting only animals with that trait to reproduce. Speciation is merely a result of this process.

Btw the pulitzer winning book "The beak of the finch" discusses how evolution actually doesn't need many generations to happen. What it needs is selection pressure -- events (such as severe draught) that force natural selection to happen within a handful of generations. It's a fascinating book on a fascinating study.

Re: Female African elephants are evolving without tusks due to ivory poaching

#294
post #40
post #12

In case anyone is wondering about the size of the effect, https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/article/wildlife-... has the numbers. Before the war, 2-4% of female elephants were tuskless. Now 32% of newly born ones are. So it's a significant change, but it's not like this property was coming out of nowhere. It started off about as common as humans having green eyes.

Evolution is an umbrella term, but in the most general form, evolution means a change in genetics in a population over time. So yes, the genetic 'option' was there before, but it is advantageous now.

How can evolution know it has advantage. Do you see Human beings's actions or predicts? And how can evolution know how it will change genetic code?

Re: Female African elephants are evolving without tusks due to ivory poaching

#295
post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disagreed. This really is natural selection and not artificial selection. The poachers aren't selectively breeding for elephants without tusks. Quite the opposite. You are correct that it's a tautology - the elephants remaining are the ones without tusks - but that's exactly how natural selection works.

> The poachers aren't selectively breeding for elephants without tusks Yes they are, that is exactly what they are doing. There is nothing natural about it. It wouldn't happen if not for the poachers.

But the poachers would rather breed for elephants with tusks, that's the whole point of their poaching after all.

I feel like I don't really know enough about the specifics of natural selection or evolution to have a strong opinion on this.

The poaching is definitely not natural, so it feels like this is not natural selection.

On the other hand, no one is deliberately breeding for this in any way, it's purely a side effect of these circumstances, which does feel more natural.

You could just view the poachers as an environmental hazard to tusked elephants, in which case this would be a perfect example of natural selection.

Re: Female African elephants are evolving without tusks due to ivory poaching

#296
post #295
post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The poachers aren't selectively breeding for elephants without tusks Yes they are, that is exactly what they are doing. There is nothing natural about it. It wouldn't happen if not for the poachers.

But the poachers would rather breed for elephants with tusks, that's the whole point of their poaching after all. I feel like I don't really know enough about the specifics of natural selection or evolution to have a strong opinion on this. The poaching is definitely not natural, so it feels like this is not natural selection. On the other hand, no one is deliberately breeding for this in any way, it's purely a side…

> You could just view the poachers as an environmental hazard to tusked elephants, in which case this would be a perfect example of natural selection.

Yes okay you can say this...

But if you are saying that poachers/humans are part of nature, then nothing in the world is "unnatural" anymore. I think this line of reasoning, while valid, is less precise and less interesting.

Re: Female African elephants are evolving without tusks due to ivory poaching

#297

A lot of elephants are killed for the ivory in their tusks Some elephants are born without tusks and live much longer. Natural mating between tuskless elephants will dramatically increase. This will result in the trait being propagated rapidly.

>This will result in the trait being propagated rapidly.

Another comment by Stevvo mentioned

> ... a trait that could negatively impact a female's chance of survival AND kills 100% of her male offspring.

Re: Female African elephants are evolving without tusks due to ivory poaching

#298
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Evolution is an umbrella term, but in the most general form, evolution means a change in genetics in a population over time. So yes, the genetic 'option' was there before, but it is advantageous now.

How can evolution know it has advantage. Do you see Human beings's actions or predicts? And how can evolution know how it will change genetic code?

Evolution doesn't know anything. Tusked elephants are being killed, and the tuskless live on to breed.

Re: Female African elephants are evolving without tusks due to ivory poaching

#299
I would like to see numbrs for elephant population, considering this study takes into consideration 30 years of heavy poaching and average life of african elephant is at least 60-70 years, couldn't this be just smaller sample group? so obviously if you kill 90% of elephants and leave only 10%, most of them tuskless, their offsprings will be much more commonly tuskless, though it doesn't mean it won't return back by itself over time

Re: Female African elephants are evolving without tusks due to ivory poaching

#300
post #290
post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Elephants are not really bread in captivity.

They are bread in captivity. In Europe the breeding is organized by the European Endangered Species Programme. https://nhatrangbay.net.vnwww.eaza.net/assets/Uploads/EAZA-D... https://www.elephant.se/elephant_breeding_in_europe.php

I highly doubt those elephants are getting killed if they don't have tusks, though.
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