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Cheap antidepressant shows promise treating early Covid-19

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Re: Cheap antidepressant shows promise treating early Covid-19

#61

Post by [deleted] »

SkittyDog wrote: post #12
blinkingled wrote: post #5

> In the group that took the drug, 11% needed hospitalization or an extended ER stay, compared to 16% of those on dummy pills. Is that really promising? Very close to margin of error if not within.

16% > 11% represents a 31% decrease in the absolute number of hospitalizations. That's nearly a ONE THIRD improvement in the hospitalization rate. In places where hospitals are at or near capacity, that would make a huge difference. Or were you trying to make a statement about the statistical validity of the result, because the outcomes differ by 5%? Because that's not how statistics work. A well constructed study of…

[deleted]

Re: Cheap antidepressant shows promise treating early Covid-19

#62

Post by DantesKite »

_ywdj wrote: post #44

From my own experience I can very much believe an SSRI could have an effect on the immune system and/or the respiratory system. I was a heavy cigarette smoker in my 20s, and over those years, I experienced worsening asthma and also worsening anxiety and depression. Eventually I was prescribed an SSRI (Zoloft), and found that not only did my mood change, my asthma completely abated, even though I was still smoking jus…

If you continue having issues, consider taking NAC. It's very commonly used to treat bronchitis and my asthmatic mother has had tremendous success with it.

Re: Cheap antidepressant shows promise treating early Covid-19

#63

Post by SkittyDog »

matjet wrote: post #43
SkittyDog wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the funny thing is that the original commenter was looking at a trivial math problem. It wasn't even a question of statistical validity, it was just "What does it mean to compare percentages to each other?" That's grade-school mathematics. I see this kind of error pretty frequently, and it's usually not a failure of mathematics... Most often, the person has some pre-existing negative emotional reaction to the sta…

I think you might want to reconsider your opinion of others. I believe the OP was referring to this result being on the edge of statistical significance given: The effect size relative to the base population; The fact that many similar trials are performed and discarded with similar drugs; And as we see when looking deeper, there are other issues such as early stopping. It is not unreasonable to suspect the effect co…

YOU are raising some valid points... but based on the OP's other comments, they seem to have a very limited knowledge of statistics--and yet, they are pushing a very critical line on this topic.

OP is asking other posters to do quite a bit of homework for them... As in, "Is this study big enough?" > "OK, but how big does it need to be to prove X?" ... At a certain point, it seems clear that OP is not arguing in good faith, because they feel compelled to make the critical statements, first, without understanding the topix.

I would caution you to not extend sympathy to OP's cause, simply because you happen to share a critical eye for this study. There is a HUGE difference between being right for the right reason, vs the wrong reason... and that's how we get crap like Ivermectin for COVID.

Re: Cheap antidepressant shows promise treating early Covid-19

#65

Post by 6nf »

onion2k wrote: post #47
lettergram wrote: post #46

Glad to see this being spoken about! I’ve been assisting with data analysis for an eclectic group of people (who funded this study). Been really disheartening to watch the politics around alternative treatments. Personally, I expect this to be attacked as well, but am hopeful! The stuff really does seem effective, particularly when combined with other drugs...

I hope this isn't attacked, because this isn't an "alternative" drug. Things move from "alternative medicine" to being "medicine" when people do good, peer-reviewed science to actually study the effects and find them to be effective. "Alternative medicine" like ivermectine or hydroxychloroquine have no scientific, properly studied basis for being used.

Ivermectin is approved for covid use in the UK and many other countries with good results and a large Oxford study is close to completion to add to the dozens of positive studies

Re: Cheap antidepressant shows promise treating early Covid-19

#66

Post by thaumasiotes »

SkittyDog wrote: post #59
devwastaken wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intro to stats says that studies are very difficult and that bias is everywhere. Reinforces how stats can be whatever you want them to be. Larger Number of people in the sample is a good start. However, bias is also a human element. Therefore you need that study reproduced independently, multiple times. Researchers don't like this because studies are expensive and hard, and their boss is telling them to publish and g…

For starters, experimental bias isn't really an issue, here... This was an observational study, with crystal clear objective criteria for coding the dependent & independent variables. A cheap, simple observational study like this is merely a first step. No reasonable expert is claiming that this study proves anything worth making medical policy changes over. This study's sole purpose is to establish whether it's wort…

> experimental bias isn't really an issue, here... This was an observational study, with crystal clear objective criteria for coding the dependent & independent variables.

I have no position on this particular study, but in general you can make your coding as simple and objective as you like and it won't do much about experimental bias. Objective processing of bad data isn't better than subjective processing of bad data.

This guy wrote a very good essay about data quality: https://desystemize.substack.com/p/desystemize-1

Re: Cheap antidepressant shows promise treating early Covid-19

#67

Post by sdhfjg »

onion2k wrote: post #47
lettergram wrote: post #46

Glad to see this being spoken about! I’ve been assisting with data analysis for an eclectic group of people (who funded this study). Been really disheartening to watch the politics around alternative treatments. Personally, I expect this to be attacked as well, but am hopeful! The stuff really does seem effective, particularly when combined with other drugs...

I hope this isn't attacked, because this isn't an "alternative" drug. Things move from "alternative medicine" to being "medicine" when people do good, peer-reviewed science to actually study the effects and find them to be effective. "Alternative medicine" like ivermectine or hydroxychloroquine have no scientific, properly studied basis for being used.

>"Alternative medicine" like ivermectine or hydroxychloroquine have no scientific, properly studied basis for being used.

When a medical doctor prescribes a drug for a purpose that is currently being studied scientifically, that is not "alternative medicine". Ivermectin is still being studied. Hydroxychloroquine was emergency authorized by the FDA.

Re: Cheap antidepressant shows promise treating early Covid-19

#68

Post by robertbarbe »

6nf wrote: post #65
onion2k wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope this isn't attacked, because this isn't an "alternative" drug. Things move from "alternative medicine" to being "medicine" when people do good, peer-reviewed science to actually study the effects and find them to be effective. "Alternative medicine" like ivermectine or hydroxychloroquine have no scientific, properly studied basis for being used.

Ivermectin is approved for covid use in the UK and many other countries with good results and a large Oxford study is close to completion to add to the dozens of positive studies

No. Ivermectin is not officially approved in the UK for the treatment of COVID-19. Source from the government : https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/freedom-of-inform...

Re: Cheap antidepressant shows promise treating early Covid-19

#69

Post by jollybean »

6nf wrote: post #65
onion2k wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope this isn't attacked, because this isn't an "alternative" drug. Things move from "alternative medicine" to being "medicine" when people do good, peer-reviewed science to actually study the effects and find them to be effective. "Alternative medicine" like ivermectine or hydroxychloroquine have no scientific, properly studied basis for being used.

Ivermectin is approved for covid use in the UK and many other countries with good results and a large Oxford study is close to completion to add to the dozens of positive studies

No.

" Ivermectin is currently not approved in the UK for the prophylaxis or treatment of COVID-19," [1]

There are no good studies demonstrating the validity of Ivermectin, and the Oxford study is not complete and there's no indication results are positive.

Why are people so crazy about this drug?

It doesn't look like it works, though there is some possibility it will, but we'll only know when the Oxford trial is complete. Given the knowledge we have today, it just isn't a therapy for COVID.

[1] https://www.gov.scot/publications/foi-202100202110/

Re: Cheap antidepressant shows promise treating early Covid-19

#70

Post by foota »

sdhfjg wrote: post #67
onion2k wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope this isn't attacked, because this isn't an "alternative" drug. Things move from "alternative medicine" to being "medicine" when people do good, peer-reviewed science to actually study the effects and find them to be effective. "Alternative medicine" like ivermectine or hydroxychloroquine have no scientific, properly studied basis for being used.

>"Alternative medicine" like ivermectine or hydroxychloroquine have no scientific, properly studied basis for being used. When a medical doctor prescribes a drug for a purpose that is currently being studied scientifically, that is not "alternative medicine". Ivermectin is still being studied. Hydroxychloroquine was emergency authorized by the FDA.

Hydroxychloroquine seems like a weird example to bring up now, since it's been completely debunked.https://www.fda.gov/drugs/drug-safety-and-availability/fda-c...
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