GitHub Copilot available for JetBrains and Neovim • Hacker News Board

Re: GitHub Copilot available for JetBrains and Neovim

#351

Post by baby » Thu, Oct 28, 2021, 6:23 AM UTC

b215826 wrote: post #299

baby wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you try it? Because I've been using it for weeks and it makes me read these types of comments as "I don't understand the value of the internet" or "what's the purpose of owning a phone". It's night and day if you have it enabled or not. There's just no question about the value proposition once you start using it. I mean, you can tell comments here from people who have actually been using it, and people who have n…

> Because I've been using it for weeks and it makes me read these types of comments as "I don't understand the value of the internet" or "what's the purpose of owning a phone". And yet apart from making this very inaccurate comparison you haven't made any argument for why such a thing as Copilot would be useful to anyone. How do you personally find Copilot useful? And why do you think someone whose job demands more t…

First, why would I need to argue this? Just try it and see if it’s useful for you. I know people who don’t use IDEs or don’t use syntax highlighting and it doesn’t seem to bother them much, so who knows.

Second, I’ve actually answered elsewhere in this thread.

Re: GitHub Copilot available for JetBrains and Neovim

#352

Post by baby » Thu, Oct 28, 2021, 6:24 AM UTC

emodendroket wrote: post #330

jpalomaki wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think current co-pilot is less useful for person who entirely knows the language and libraries. Right know I see more use for people who understand the language and libraries, but are frequently Googling ”how do I do xyz in P” (because they can’t recall certain things).

Bouncing around languages and ecosystems is pretty common, isn't it?

Yep. A lot of the negative comments seem to come from people who haven’t worked on any new technology/language/framework in years.

Re: GitHub Copilot available for JetBrains and Neovim

#353

Post by baby » Thu, Oct 28, 2021, 6:25 AM UTC

ranguna wrote: post #344

wokwokwok wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The onus is on you to convince the skeptics. Is it? Look, I don't care at all if you use copilot; you can use notepad to write your code if that floats your boat; do whatever you want. What the parent post said is: Copilot is useful; it helps you write code with autocomplete suggestions. If you think that you don't get productivity gains from an IDE or you're in the 'no IDE makes you more hardcore and better progra…

> Well, it's free to use right now.... From copilot "additional telemetry" > If you use GitHub Copilot, the GitHub Copilot extension/plugin will collect usage information about events generated by interacting with the integrated development environment (IDE). These events include GitHub Copilot performance, features used, and suggestions accepted, modified and accepted, or dismissed. This information may include pers…

Yes it’s free

Re: GitHub Copilot available for JetBrains and Neovim

#354

Post by baby » Thu, Oct 28, 2021, 6:26 AM UTC

Gigachad wrote: post #320

armchairhacker wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've only used it a bit and it's like glorified autocompletion. It messes up a lot in some ways too, often suggesting getFoo when in kotlin we just use foo. It is really fun to see it sort of understand your code though, and every once in a while it does a smart suggestion that could've taken a while for me to figure out myself.

It's certainly a good autocomplete but it can't be used for anything more complex because you just can't trust it. Every now and then it produces an entire function filled with complexity and I think "This looks right but I would need to independently verify everything" and at that point it's easier to write from scratch.

Whenever it happens it’s actually a good foundation as it still does a lot of boilerplate

Re: GitHub Copilot available for JetBrains and Neovim

#355

Post by baby » Thu, Oct 28, 2021, 6:27 AM UTC

f38zf5vdt wrote: post #134

baby wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say the reverse, I’m getting so many hits that I’m mindblown. And when it missed, I can generally still use that and fix the suggestion, as it’s faster.

It's a glorified autocomplete to me. It seems like it feeds me mostly things I'd get from searching Stack Overflow. The first day was pretty interesting but the novelty wore off quickly. You still need to grok what it spews out and see if it's correct. And the worst thing about that is that you don't get the context of the Stack Overflow threads, where people discuss the impact of the given solution and alternatives.…

Do you use autocomplete, and would you say that it did a better job than autocomplete? If so why would you disable it?

Re: GitHub Copilot available for JetBrains and Neovim

#356

Post by baby » Thu, Oct 28, 2021, 6:28 AM UTC

snvzz wrote: post #334

baby wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another comment said "don't open source your code", which I would agree with. If you don't want people reusing your code, just don't open source it. What's the point otherwise?

It's not black and white. Letting people see the code doesn't mean they can ignore the license and do whatever the hell they want with it. I am quite reasonable. I favor the MIT license. I still do not want my code in Copilot, which pretty much dismisses my rights entirely.

I’m not sure I understand that point of view though. Copilot just suggests relatively short snippets, it’s not copying large chunks of your library or products. If you truly have an innovative algorithm and you don’t want people to use it like that, you’ll have to go the patent route

Re: GitHub Copilot available for JetBrains and Neovim

#357

Post by framecowbird » Thu, Oct 28, 2021, 6:29 AM UTC

> Login to GitHub Copilot using the device auth flow and authorized GitHub Copilot IntelliJ plugin with your GitHub Account in an external browser.

> Read and agree to the GitHub Copilot additional telemetry terms.

Can anybody comment on the privacy aspects of this? Is the telemetry reasonable? Why on earth do I need to login: presumably so that they can associate my coding with my account to structure the data they are gathering?

Re: GitHub Copilot available for JetBrains and Neovim

#358

Post by baby » Thu, Oct 28, 2021, 6:29 AM UTC

Gigachad wrote: post #336

baby wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you got the wrong idea on how people use copilot. You don't just accept everything it throws at you. Think about it as an auto-complete on steroid, would you say that auto-complete is dangerous to use? If not, then this is the same. The suggestions of copilot don't always compile, but they sometimes manage to find the right function to use, or the right combination of functions, or even the right comment (if…

The problem with copilot is that other than the most basic boilerplate generation. It takes just as much effort to verify its output is correct than to come up with a correct answer.

I disagree, from my usage it sets up a lot of the boilerplate code, the types, etc. and will also find the correct functions and all without having me look up the doc again.

Re: GitHub Copilot available for JetBrains and Neovim

#359

Post by namelosw » Thu, Oct 28, 2021, 6:30 AM UTC

mewse wrote: post #213

I’ve never understood the value proposition for Copilot. In terms of difficulty, writing code is maybe on average a two out of ten. On average, maintaining code you wrote recently is probably a three out of ten in terms of difficulty, and maintaining code somebody else wrote or code from a long time ago probably rises to around a five out of ten. Debugging misbehaving code is probably a seven out of ten or higher. Gi…

By the same logic you've presented, what's the value proposition of the plain-old auto-completion? What's the value proposition of a slick editor? All you need is the built-in notepad and a debugger.

Speaking from my personal experience, I usually write code in TDD style, in which I test the properties of the software I desire upfront, then make it pass with a minimal amount of effort. When I see there's a need for refactoring, I refactor. And I repeat this process until it is done.

The three parts take roughly the same portion of time, and when I'm writing tests, I'm thinking about the functionality and value of the software. When I'm refactoring I'm thinking about the design. When I'm writing the implementation initially, I want it to Just Work™ in the first place, and I find Copilot is great for this matter: why not delegate the boring part to the machine?

Re: GitHub Copilot available for JetBrains and Neovim

#360

Post by wokwokwok » Thu, Oct 28, 2021, 6:42 AM UTC

ranguna wrote: post #344

wokwokwok wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The onus is on you to convince the skeptics. Is it? Look, I don't care at all if you use copilot; you can use notepad to write your code if that floats your boat; do whatever you want. What the parent post said is: Copilot is useful; it helps you write code with autocomplete suggestions. If you think that you don't get productivity gains from an IDE or you're in the 'no IDE makes you more hardcore and better progra…

> Well, it's free to use right now.... From copilot "additional telemetry" > If you use GitHub Copilot, the GitHub Copilot extension/plugin will collect usage information about events generated by interacting with the integrated development environment (IDE). These events include GitHub Copilot performance, features used, and suggestions accepted, modified and accepted, or dismissed. This information may include pers…

> Should I use it?

> Look, I literally do not care if you do or don't.

> What I take issue with is people saying 'it has no value'.