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Female African elephants are evolving without tusks due to ivory poaching

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Re: Female African elephants are evolving without tusks due to ivory poaching

#51

Post by technothrasher »

Ansil849 wrote: post #15

For people who are not from the region but are criticizing poaching...maybe you should make sure your own house is clean before throwing stones at others. How many people critiquing this have industrial animal farms in their country, for example? And just to be clear: I don't mean that vile acts like poaching shouldn't be criticized, I more find the hypocrisy extremely grating, especially when it comes from meat eate…

Poaching is unregulated and ends up with animals going extinct. People who eat common meat animals are, in fact, doing the exact opposite and pretty much ensuring those animals don't go extinct.

You may have good reasons to find meat eating morally objectively objectionable, but eating meat and complaining about poaching is not a hypocritical position.

The rest of your post is simply a relative privation fallacy.

Re: Female African elephants are evolving without tusks due to ivory poaching

#52

Post by nickff »

bilekas wrote: post #31
estaseuropano wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Superstition. Elephants and tigers are not hunted for inherent qualities of their bodies, but for the belief that consumption of their parts in various ways helps health/virility/...

Superstition really seems to be one of the largest factor when it comes to animal hunting/consumption. It's ridiculous and a little bit ironic that something supposedly to bring good fortune will result in wide scale killing of animals, living earthlings.

>"It's ridiculous and a little bit ironic that something supposedly to bring good fortune will result in wide scale killing of animals, living earthlings."

How is this ironic? Most cultures have prized animal products throughout recorded history, and many have practiced sacrifices, which is literally the killing of the being.

Re: Female African elephants are evolving without tusks due to ivory poaching

#54

Post by VeninVidiaVicii »

csours wrote: post #40
jsnell wrote: post #12

In case anyone is wondering about the size of the effect, https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/article/wildlife-... has the numbers. Before the war, 2-4% of female elephants were tuskless. Now 32% of newly born ones are. So it's a significant change, but it's not like this property was coming out of nowhere. It started off about as common as humans having green eyes.

Evolution is an umbrella term, but in the most general form, evolution means a change in genetics in a population over time. So yes, the genetic 'option' was there before, but it is advantageous now.

And this is why genetic diversity is a good thing.

Re: Female African elephants are evolving without tusks due to ivory poaching

#55

Post by 1cvmask »

bogwog wrote: post #6

> Researchers found the number of tuskless female elephants in Mozambique increased by almost double over 30 years. This overlaps with a period of civil conflict, where armed forces slaughtered 90% of the elephant population to produce ivory. This ivory went on to finance the conflict. People suck.

The civil war and conflict was created by white colonizers and CIA (America):

https://www.africanexponent.com/post/4981-civil-war-in-mozam...

Re: Female African elephants are evolving without tusks due to ivory poaching

#57

Post by Apocryphon »

mysterydip wrote: post #53

What if unicorns at one point existed, but were hunted for the superstitious power of their horns, leaving only the hornless to reproduce and eventually eliminate the gene? How would we know?

Where are all of the heirloom artifacts made from unicorn ivory?

Re: Female African elephants are evolving without tusks due to ivory poaching

#58

Post by xupybd »

mysterydip wrote: post #53

What if unicorns at one point existed, but were hunted for the superstitious power of their horns, leaving only the hornless to reproduce and eventually eliminate the gene? How would we know?

The fossil record.

If they were hunted then there might be a cultural record as well.

Re: Female African elephants are evolving without tusks due to ivory poaching

#59

Post by abruzzi »

tombert wrote: post #8

Honest question from someone who knows virtually nothing about chemistry or material science: is there a difference in quality between synthetic and natural ivory? If not, why is poaching even still a viable market?

as an amateur pianist, I've played pianos with and without ivory keys, and the feel of ivory is a bit better. I'm not sure why, but it seems like it doesn't get as slick from sweat as you play. Of course, piano keys are not the cause of current ivory demand to the best of my knowledge, and I'll happily take non-ivory keys.

Re: Female African elephants are evolving without tusks due to ivory poaching

#60

Post by cure »

Ansil849 wrote: post #15

For people who are not from the region but are criticizing poaching...maybe you should make sure your own house is clean before throwing stones at others. How many people critiquing this have industrial animal farms in their country, for example? And just to be clear: I don't mean that vile acts like poaching shouldn't be criticized, I more find the hypocrisy extremely grating, especially when it comes from meat eate…

> For people who are not from the region but are criticizing poaching...maybe you should make sure your own house is clean before throwing stones at others. How many people critiquing this have industrial animal farms in their country, for example?

While I somewhat understand the sentiment, this is obviously a completely impractical attitude.

If you follow this logic nothing is ever going to change, because let's face it, nobody is perfect. We're all human.

I'm not a meat eater, but I am very happy that meat-eaters critique poaching. This is a win, as it can only lead to more awareness of how we treat animals. Maybe it will make some more people give up meat.

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