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In-demand tech skills are the last thing to look for in IT hires

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Re: In-demand tech skills are the last thing to look for in IT hires

#41

Post by deviaan »

sillysaurusx wrote: post #16
blueslurpee wrote: post #7

>Sure, in the ’80s, it might have been possible for one person to do it all: systems administration, database, coding, design. But in today’s world, database administrators, infrastructure engineers, coders, designers, project managers and others — whether on staff, on contract or with a vendor or service provider — must work together to execute projects quickly, securely and reliably. Tech today is a team sport. I f…

Found the engineer that needs a project manager. :) I think most devs just haven’t had a good product manager. It can be shockingly effective, but only when they care about you, rather than managing you.

Going to echo this sentiment. The project I'm on now is the first time I've worked with a PM that gets whats going on and actually manages the product instead of just sending PMs after hours asking for some "small" feature to be squeezed into the sprint. It makes a HUGE difference, and I can honestly say I'm much less stressed out now than in previous projects.

Re: In-demand tech skills are the last thing to look for in IT hires

#42

Post by wvenable »

Jensson wrote: post #39
wvenable wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are people and many don't understand or are actively afraid of technology. They have jobs to do and if they don't know you, they may be skeptical about what you can do for them. They might even have been burned in past by developers who promise but don't deliver. Knowing how to talk to people to get your project done is a great skill.

> Knowing how to talk to people to get your project done is a great skill. Right, so why would your company hire people who are so bad at talking to people that the developer has to go to such lengths to save that persons project? I wouldn't want to work there.

So your argument is companies should hire people who good at communication so they can hire a developer who isn't?

Re: In-demand tech skills are the last thing to look for in IT hires

#44

Post by Jensson »

wvenable wrote: post #42
Jensson wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Knowing how to talk to people to get your project done is a great skill. Right, so why would your company hire people who are so bad at talking to people that the developer has to go to such lengths to save that persons project? I wouldn't want to work there.

So your argument is companies should hire people who good at communication so they can hire a developer who isn't?

My argument is that you can meet them halfway rather than dumping all the responsibility on the developer like this guy does.

But as a consultant I guess his job is to help toxic managers hire people they can work with, if that is the case he doesn't have a choice to change the manager.

Re: In-demand tech skills are the last thing to look for in IT hires

#45

Post by jrochkind1 »

Jensson wrote: post #10

> A good technologist has grace. He will respectfully probe for intent in a way that doesn’t put the requester on the defensive. He will make it clear that this is a partnership, and that getting the job done is high on his list of priorities — it’s just that he needs some information in order to do a good job for you. Sounds like a very toxic environment. What would put the tech worker that much on their toes, what…

Equating "He will respectfully probe for intent in a way that doesn’t put the requester on the defensive" with "tip-toeing around issues" seems... not right to me.

Re: In-demand tech skills are the last thing to look for in IT hires

#46

Post by nawgz »

Oddskar wrote: post #23
pjmlp wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We had APIs since Sun RPC, they just keep being rebooted. The 2021 version is REST/gRPC for SaaS products.

REST? Didn't you get the memo? We've all moved on to GraphQL because Facebook use it and that means we all should use it. It also enables our UI components to easily fetch data themselves . Because that's a great architectural pattern that we've discovered.

It's unironically true that GraphQL in combination with database introspection & query tools like Hasura is a far superior pattern to REST-based CRUD.

Additionally, as a UI developer, I understand you are trying to make it seem like GraphQL promotes anti-patterns, but being able to make a single query which is deeply nested and therefore can maintain state for an entire sub-tree of your app is a really good state management pattern. Less coupling, separation of concerns, and usually significantly reduced network activity since you just need to keep the GraphQL state aligned, which is actually specified unlike how to sync a REST resource.

Do you actually have any experience with this tool?

Re: In-demand tech skills are the last thing to look for in IT hires

#47

Post by bob1029 »

Our interviews for tech hires have gradually evolved into an interrogation regarding a person's attitude towards work/peers more so than their knowledge about how to do specific tech things. Teaching a willing participant how to do virtually anything with a computer is feasible in 2021. We need people who are willing to engage difficult, fast-changing things substantially more than smart-asses who think they know everything coming in the door.

There was an interview I was on last week where the candidate gave a ~3/10 response to an important technical question, but because their attitude and other soft skills were obviously excellent, we made a unanimous hire decision. It was clear to us that we could coach this individual to get them to 10/10 on the areas they need to be.

At this point, we are no longer requiring any certificates or college education. If someone happens to have a degree in a hard engineering field we are happy to have that, but it's no longer something we gate-keep on.

Re: In-demand tech skills are the last thing to look for in IT hires

#48

Post by jrochkind1 »

Jensson wrote: post #44
wvenable wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So your argument is companies should hire people who good at communication so they can hire a developer who isn't?

My argument is that you can meet them halfway rather than dumping all the responsibility on the developer like this guy does. But as a consultant I guess his job is to help toxic managers hire people they can work with, if that is the case he doesn't have a choice to change the manager.

Would you say your discussion style in this thread is "meeting halfway", and typical of your discussion style at work?

What would you say characterizes a "toxic" discussion style, or "being so bad at talking to people"?

Re: In-demand tech skills are the last thing to look for in IT hires

#49

Post by yobbo »

wvenable wrote: post #21
Jensson wrote: post #10

> A good technologist has grace. He will respectfully probe for intent in a way that doesn’t put the requester on the defensive. He will make it clear that this is a partnership, and that getting the job done is high on his list of priorities — it’s just that he needs some information in order to do a good job for you. Sounds like a very toxic environment. What would put the tech worker that much on their toes, what…

People are people and many don't understand or are actively afraid of technology. They have jobs to do and if they don't know you, they may be skeptical about what you can do for them. They might even have been burned in past by developers who promise but don't deliver. Knowing how to talk to people to get your project done is a great skill.

> People are people and many don't understand or are actively afraid of technology.

One possible alternative is that people are suspicious/defensive (sometimes justifiably) when techies ask questions about "what problems are you having?" and "what do you typically do when ___?" To them, it might seem like they are being interrogated by someone ostensibly below their rank.

To be fair, this is sometimes exactly what is happening. A techie is sent in to investigate automating a bullshit job, but neither the techie or the person is told this in clear terms.

Re: In-demand tech skills are the last thing to look for in IT hires

#50

Post by wvenable »

Jensson wrote: post #44
wvenable wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So your argument is companies should hire people who good at communication so they can hire a developer who isn't?

My argument is that you can meet them halfway rather than dumping all the responsibility on the developer like this guy does. But as a consultant I guess his job is to help toxic managers hire people they can work with, if that is the case he doesn't have a choice to change the manager.

Nowhere does it say all the responsibility is on the developer. But being able to ask questions without putting people on the defensive is hugely important.

Many software projects directly involve fundamentally changing someone else's work (hopefully for the better). You might not think that's a big deal but I can assure you it's a big deal for them. And for your project to succeed, you're going to need to recognize these factors and deal it.

I consider it like training -- anyone who've I already successfully completed a project with me knows how these things go and is perfectly comfortable. People I've not worked with before often need a softer approach until they've gone through a full successful project.

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