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Bitcoin is largely controlled by a small group of investors and miners

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Re: Bitcoin is largely controlled by a small group of investors and miners

#251

Post by nobody9999 »

koonsolo wrote: post #227
nuerow wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Haha, you must be blind. Nowhere in the article did they say that. Second paragraph. Hard to miss by anyone who clicked on the link. Be my guest and check it out. > I quote: "we believe there are fundamental problems with gold, oil, and the U.S. dollar as stores of value going forward". Somehow you managed to skip just enough of the text to glance over the part I quoted and you claimed it doesn't exist. That isn't…

"For the last 75 years, the U.S. dollar has also been a reliable store of value." I'm not a native English speaker, but "has been" is a past tense. Then they explain why these times have indeed passed. If you cannot interpret past, present and future, then there is no point in us discussing this further. EDIT: Ok, no problem then, Winklevoss twins think the US dollar is a reliable store of value. Great article they w…

>I'm not a native English speaker, but "has been" is a past tense. Then they explain why these times have indeed passed.

Not being a native English speaker seems to have led you down the wrong path here.

As a native English speaker, I can confirm that you're incorrect in your assessment.

The phrase "has been," e.g., 'the dog has been feeling poorly', or 'Steve has been lying to you', or 'For the last 75 years, the U.S. dollar has also been a reliable store of value.' absolutely refers to what has already happened, but it certainly does not exclude the idea that whatever 'has been' is still happening.

In fact, both of my examples, as well as your quote strongly imply that what "has been" the case continues to be so.

If you cannot properly interpret English as it's actually used, then perhaps someone can help you with that, rather than refuse to engage with you[0].

Unless, of course, you are uninterested in anything that contradicts what you want to believe.

Oh, and you're welcome.

[0] See what I did there?

Re: Bitcoin is largely controlled by a small group of investors and miners

#252

Post by JumpCrisscross »

mudlus wrote: post #226

How was, or is, this avoidable even now, and in existing monetary systems? One caveat is that though there are a few major actors, no one can be sure where they are physically. It is detached from political jurisdictions, which is the unique goal of Bitcoin.

> How was, or is, this avoidable even now, and in existing monetary systems?

Transfer payments.

Historically made under the threat of violence by a populist king or warlord. Who, in almost all cases where the transfer payments continued, was swiftly replaced by a republic. Bitcoin turns the clock back to the feudal reality of land-owning nobles. We just made the cost of defending the land vanishing.

Re: Bitcoin is largely controlled by a small group of investors and miners

#253

Post by csomar »

nuerow wrote: post #141
Hermel wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The top 1000 investors hold 15% of the supply? That’s not “highly centralized” if you compare to the stock market. For Tesla, one single shareholder holds 17% of the whole company.

> For Tesla, one single shareholder holds 17% of the whole company. If said investor abused his leverage to manipulate the stock value to dump his holding on unwitting buyers prior to making it tank, he would be facing a prison sentence. In BTC that would be just another uneventful day.

So what you are basically saying is that the stock market is not really a free market; and has arbitrary restrictions to make everything looks stable and legit. Okay.

Re: Bitcoin is largely controlled by a small group of investors and miners

#254

Post by piva00 »

koonsolo wrote: post #186
nuerow wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They of course do give a damn about theoretical concepts such as "The Great Monetary Inflation" It seems you tried to shift the subject mid-discussion and thus move the goalpost. The point being discussed was "proof of violence by the state", but somehow you've tried to change subject mid-discussion to inflation and how they argue that going long in BTC is a profitable investment. In fact, the Winklevoss Capital ar…

> the Winklevoss Capital article you quoted even praise the US dollar as "a reliable store of value" Haha, you must be blind. Nowhere in the article did they say that. I quote: "we believe there are fundamental problems with gold, oil, and the U.S. dollar as stores of value going forward". Then they go on to explain how the dollar is mismanaged. Have fun living in your own world.

> For the last 75 years, the U.S. dollar has also been a reliable store of value. This is a result of its comparatively good management by the Federal Reserve and the strength, resilience, and reputation of the U.S. economy. In fact, it is the most widely held fiat currency in the world and recognized as the global reserve currency, denominating and settling the majority of international trade.

Basically their whole schtick: "we believe that the US dollar has been amazing, now we found this new asset class we believe we can invest and earn money on, this is our marketing piece for why you should believe that too".

They aren't "fighting the man", they are trying to convince others to jump onto the bandwagon which they are heavily invested in to make a profit.

Not sure why you are still caught up on this ideological debate when Bitcoin has long ago left that camp of ideology and got absorbed into the pure financial-capitalist camp...

Bitcoin now is to make money, not to fight the system. Fighting the system is just the marketing fluff being used to capture people like you.

Good luck and godspeed.

Re: Bitcoin is largely controlled by a small group of investors and miners

#255

Post by ThaJay »

chrischen wrote: post #187
Hermel wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The top 1000 investors hold 15% of the supply? That’s not “highly centralized” if you compare to the stock market. For Tesla, one single shareholder holds 17% of the whole company.

It eventually will only merely represent existing income inequality already present in society. However, it's still in the interest of those minority few who control bitcoin not to sabotage its value.

There will be (and is) some movement, but it's mostly around the middle class. Up and down.

Poor people can't get in and fat cats dominate so the more you zoom out the more you're right.

Re: Bitcoin is largely controlled by a small group of investors and miners

#256

Post by CompuHacker »

tinus_hn wrote: post #247
FabHK wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> just 0.1% (about 50 miners) control close to 50% of mining capacity So, the much-vaunted "mathematical guarantee" that only 21m BTC will ever be mined depends on the benevolence of those 50 miners not to fiddle with the code base. Makes perfect sense to trust those honourable individuals more than the central bankers in control of fiat. /s

How are these miner going to fiddle with the code on your computer? That is not the issue caused by this concentration of mining power.

If those 50 people start playing by different rules, the sum of the value of the two resulting currencies will probably be less than that of BTC as it stands now.

Re: Bitcoin is largely controlled by a small group of investors and miners

#257

Post by EricDeb »

qeternity wrote: post #217
krageon wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> highly regulated Regulated by them, so in practice not all that regulated

Please elaborate. Which regulations do you think are missing?

How about regulations so they can't avoid taxes? For every dollar invested in the IRS, $3-6 could be gained. Please elaborate on why you think it's okay for rich people to avoid taxes.

Re: Bitcoin is largely controlled by a small group of investors and miners

#258

Post by Valakas_ »

FabHK wrote: post #235
YossarianFrPrez wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting quotes from the first section of the paper: "We first document that 90% of transaction volume on the Bitcoin blockchain is not tied to economically meaningful activities but is the byproduct of the Bitcoin protocol design as well as the preference of many participants for anonymity." "We show that the Bitcoin mining capacity is highly concentrated and has been for the last five years. The top 10% of miner…

> just 0.1% (about 50 miners) control close to 50% of mining capacity So, the much-vaunted "mathematical guarantee" that only 21m BTC will ever be mined depends on the benevolence of those 50 miners not to fiddle with the code base. Makes perfect sense to trust those honourable individuals more than the central bankers in control of fiat. /s

No. Who holds the real power are nodes. Miners are just workers doing their job and getting paid for it.

Re: Bitcoin is largely controlled by a small group of investors and miners

#259

Post by nuerow »

csomar wrote: post #253
nuerow wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For Tesla, one single shareholder holds 17% of the whole company. If said investor abused his leverage to manipulate the stock value to dump his holding on unwitting buyers prior to making it tank, he would be facing a prison sentence. In BTC that would be just another uneventful day.

So what you are basically saying is that the stock market is not really a free market; and has arbitrary restrictions to make everything looks stable and legit. Okay.

> So what you are basically saying is that the stock market is not really a free market; and has arbitrary restrictions to make everything looks stable and legit. Okay.

That makes as much sense as claiming that a free society isn't really free because you're subjected to arbitrary restrictions that punish you for stealing and embezzling.

Re: Bitcoin is largely controlled by a small group of investors and miners

#260

Post by eraad »

I believe this is a hit piece. The author uses the word "controlled" in a misleading way that leads readers to think that the value offer of bitcoin decentralization is not true or worst, whatever product that builds on it is deceiving their customers. Talks very poorly of the author and everyone else involved.
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