I don't see the problem. Compared to the disparity in realwrold money (dollars) Bitcoin distribution seems rather flat. How many of the world's supply of dollars are controlled by the top 10,000 richest people?
Bitcoin is largely controlled by a small group of investors and miners
181–190 of 486 posts
Re: Bitcoin is largely controlled by a small group of investors and miners
#182Earlier quoted context omitted.
There seems to be a weird perception that decentralization means that there won't be inequality of power in the system. That's not what it means. Decentralization simply means that there is no central power that can make unilateral decisions about the system like a government can with its currency. This explicit decentralization of power is what people are excited about, because it means any change to the system requ…
You nailed it. Bitcoin is not some kind of panacea that will make everyone rich. It's just money that cannot be fucked with by central bankers, governments, dictators or anyone else for that matter. That's it.
Can't it still be fucked with via regulation? eg China banning it outright etc.
Re: Bitcoin is largely controlled by a small group of investors and miners
#183I've become very disillusioned with this currency.
So far the only things of note that Bitcoin has achieved is having a considerable impact on global warming and making it near impossible for mere mortals to buy GPUs at reasonable prices.
Even if any of the touted advantages were to finally materialize now, it wouldn't have been worth it.
Re: Bitcoin is largely controlled by a small group of investors and miners
#184I've become very disillusioned with this currency. So far the only things of note that Bitcoin has achieved is having a considerable impact on global warming and making it near impossible for mere mortals to buy GPUs at reasonable prices. Even if any of the touted advantages were to finally materialize now, it wouldn't have been worth it.
GPUs are not used for Bitcoin mining
Re: Bitcoin is largely controlled by a small group of investors and miners
#185Earlier quoted context omitted.
How does the USD currency compare? I'd wager that the top-10 banks and the various central reserve banks own or control the vast majority of USD.
If Bitcoin is comparable to USD, then there's nothing justifying its use over USD, with its associated ludicrous waste of energy and environmental impact.
While I'm sure you're correct, does that make the comparison any less useful and informative?
Re: Bitcoin is largely controlled by a small group of investors and miners
#186Earlier quoted context omitted.
> do you feel that people such as the Winklevoss twins give a damn about theoretical concepts such as "proof of violence by the state"? They of course do give a damn about theoretical concepts such as "The Great Monetary Inflation" They make a pretty good case for bitcoin at https://winklevosscapital.com/the-case-for-500k-bitcoin/ But don't worry about all of this, I'm sure you can just dismiss this all. Meanwhile ou…
> They of course do give a damn about theoretical concepts such as "The Great Monetary Inflation" It seems you tried to shift the subject mid-discussion and thus move the goalpost. The point being discussed was "proof of violence by the state", but somehow you've tried to change subject mid-discussion to inflation and how they argue that going long in BTC is a profitable investment. In fact, the Winklevoss Capital ar…
> the Winklevoss Capital article you quoted even praise the US dollar as "a reliable store of value"
Haha, you must be blind. Nowhere in the article did they say that. I quote: "we believe there are fundamental problems with gold, oil, and the U.S. dollar as stores of value going forward". Then they go on to explain how the dollar is mismanaged.
Have fun living in your own world.
Re: Bitcoin is largely controlled by a small group of investors and miners
#187Earlier quoted context omitted.
Interesting quotes from the first section of the paper: "We first document that 90% of transaction volume on the Bitcoin blockchain is not tied to economically meaningful activities but is the byproduct of the Bitcoin protocol design as well as the preference of many participants for anonymity." "We show that the Bitcoin mining capacity is highly concentrated and has been for the last five years. The top 10% of miner…
The top 1000 investors hold 15% of the supply? That’s not “highly centralized” if you compare to the stock market. For Tesla, one single shareholder holds 17% of the whole company.
It eventually will only merely represent existing income inequality already present in society. However, it's still in the interest of those minority few who control bitcoin not to sabotage its value.
Re: Bitcoin is largely controlled by a small group of investors and miners
#188Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Soooo. . . you're saying a tiny fraction of the population controls the vast majority of the resource? You mean just like every other major resource on the planet? :) I understand the need to try to dismiss this problem, specially from those who have a dog in the race, but the dream of having a magical pseudo-currency that solves all problems and unexplainably makes everyone richer and richer just falls out flat if…
> magical pseudo-currency that solves all problems and unexplainably makes everyone richer and richer That's not what's exciting about bitcoin. What's exciting is that it is the first digital, global money that isn't protected by the proof of violence of the state. The US dollar is the world reserve currency because the United States is the best in the world at deploying destructive power, and the British and French…
> What's exciting is that it is the first digital, global money that isn't protected by the proof of violence of the state.
You say this as if it was a good thing. But is it? Look at it from the other direction: it's a tremendous optimization. Imagine a world of Bitcoin, where someone comes and proposes: "Look, we can all keep spending almost all of the world's energy production on scaling basic trade, or... we can just agree that I'll beat up anyone not playing ball, and we can put all that energy to productive use - like farming, medicine, construction, entertainment, science". Does it sound like a bad deal now?
Also, the only reason there isn't much threats of violence[0] associated with Bitcoin yet is because cryptocurrencies are tiny. Barely anyone in the real economy cares about crypto[1]. If, by some scary miracle of a trickster god, the economy starts caring for real, cryptocurrencies will get quickly integrated into the mainstream by regulatory means - and regulations are backed by proof of violence. And almost everyone will want that, too, because people will be tired of getting robbed or cheated out of their money. You can't correct an act of violence without another act of violence[2].
(It's not even that hard to rein in Bitcoin. All it would take is for the US govt to announce which chain is considered legitimate by them for the purpose of paying taxes, and that the rest is considered counterfeit money.)
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[0] - Criminal activity notwithstanding.
[1] - No, noises made by large banks about running their own blockchains isn't caring - it's just exploring new potential areas of growth and profit.
[2] - At least if we generalize "violence" enough, to encompass credible threats of violence. If me stealing your money at gunpoint is an act of violence, then so is the court ordering me to give it back under threat of forcing me into prison.
Re: Bitcoin is largely controlled by a small group of investors and miners
#189Earlier quoted context omitted.
Interesting quotes from the first section of the paper: "We first document that 90% of transaction volume on the Bitcoin blockchain is not tied to economically meaningful activities but is the byproduct of the Bitcoin protocol design as well as the preference of many participants for anonymity." "We show that the Bitcoin mining capacity is highly concentrated and has been for the last five years. The top 10% of miner…
As someone who's read the paper, do you know how they account for ownership by exchanges? There's got to be a large amount of BTC that is held in Coinbase's wallets, but actually owned by many more individuals. I.e. isn't the BTC I have parked at Coinbase is in the same wallet as many of their other customers' BTC, and shows up on the blockchain as one owner by this analysis?
It doesn't change the fact that it is a risk to the system that comes from centralization
Re: Bitcoin is largely controlled by a small group of investors and miners
#190Earlier quoted context omitted.
A company is very different from a currency. Apples and oranges comparing those in terms of centralisation.
How does the USD currency compare? I'd wager that the top-10 banks and the various central reserve banks own or control the vast majority of USD.
banks don't own the deposits. in fact, deposits are liabilities on their balance sheets.